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Pre-empt vs Pre-empt or is it ?

#1 User is offline   kdr_fm 

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Posted 2017-September-10, 08:21

Vul All

S x
H Txx
D AQJ98xx
C Kx


3C ??

Your bid
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#2 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-September-10, 08:54

Tough call. To me that hand is so close to a 3 pre-empt opener vulnerable that if you overcall 3 partner is going to expect more in the way of high cards.

With 22 cards missing in the majors, I'd rather Pass and see what happens next. You should never overcall a pre-empt with a pre-empt, and even if partner is weak, overcalling 3 doesn't exactly take any bidding space away from the opponents.
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#3 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-September-10, 21:11

I'm bidding 3 . I'd normally like to have a little more to overcall at this level, but with a nice 7 card suit and 6 loser hand I'm not passing. I'll take my chances if partner has zilch and passes. But I want partner to know where my values lie if we defend.
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#4 User is offline   kdr_fm 

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Posted 2017-September-13, 13:40

I put this up as a poll on bridge winners and I got an astounding 91% vote for 3D. Maybe I'm old fashioned I was taught but you don't overcall weak hands with weak hands. Why ... well partner has no idea what to do with a forward going hand. Responder in this case had

S AQxxx
H QTxx
D Kxx
C x

A monster of a hand which could well produce slam opposite a "normal" 3D bid.

It went 3C 3D 4C (great news) 5C; P 5D dbl rdbl all pass.

HAK and ruff and club ace -2. Say what you may about the redouble but 9/10 times 5D is cold *if* the 3D bidder has the opening plus bid they promised.

These hands will probably always get to 5D if either makes a bid. Strangely 4NT is actually cold from the 3D bidder's hand.
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#5 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2017-September-13, 17:19

Agree with bridgewinners, you have to overcall with 6 tricks in your hand. You even have two defensive tricks.

I think the redouble was silly. 5D is down opposite any normal 3 overcall if responder has his double. Why can't doubler have two aces and JT9x of trumps? Are you saying KJ KJx AQxxxx xx is not an overcall??
Obviously we have a recall bias in favour of the assholes. -helene_t
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#6 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-September-13, 21:08

View Postkdr_fm, on 2017-September-13, 13:40, said:

I put this up as a poll on bridge winners and I got an astounding 91% vote for 3D. Maybe I'm old fashioned I was taught but you don't overcall weak hands with weak hands. Why ... well partner has no idea what to do with a forward going hand. Responder in this case had

S AQxxx
H QTxx
D Kxx
C x

A monster of a hand which could well produce slam opposite a "normal" 3D bid.

It went 3C 3D 4C (great news) 5C; P 5D dbl rdbl all pass.

HAK and ruff and club ace -2. Say what you may about the redouble but 9/10 times 5D is cold *if* the 3D bidder has the opening plus bid they promised.

These hands will probably always get to 5D if either makes a bid. Strangely 4NT is actually cold from the 3D bidder's hand.

Partner promised . OK, normally, you would expect partner to have an opening bid. But with distributional hands (and partner's hand qualifies as one), partner may push a little to bid a suit. Otherwise, partner may never be able to show it afterward and you'll possibly lose the chance at a good contract. You have to take that into account in your bidding.

Since you don't know what partner's hand is, redoubling is ludicrous. That bid needs to be reserved for hands where you're absolutely dead certain that 5 can't be defeated. You can't with the hand you hold. If 5 doubled makes, you're likely to get a top at MP and certainly would be getting a healthy swing at IMPs. So it really serves no purpose except to raise the penalty if you go set. One big issue with redoubling on this hand is the , there's no way to if partner has only one heart loser. With a stiff low , redoubling means you're betting partner to have no more one loser total in both majors or possibly two losers if partner has the A. That's a rather tall order.

One cardinal principle of good bidding is "Never put cards into partner's hand unless bridge logic tells you they are there".

I'd just pass over 5 x.

Your hand is an invitational hand opposite an opening bid. And it still is opposite a 3 overcall. You have a decent 11 count plus a possible ruffing value in . However, once RHO raises to 4 that ruffing value has diminished somewhat. Unless you're playing against some incredibly aggressive and wild opponents, the 3 bidder has at least 7 and RHO likely has at least 3 to raise. So maybe you can ruff 1 at most from partner's hand. Partner needs a lot for slam to be on and with many "normal" 3 overcalls game may not even be ironclad.
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#7 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2017-September-17, 04:49

3d from me. if pass partner bids you bid one level higher
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