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What to Bid? Need advice

#1 User is offline   jlgoose 

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Posted 2017-September-05, 17:05

We had a hand today that I did not know how to bid.

East opened 1NT
As South, I held 5 Hearts (AKQ), a total of 14 HCP, no other biddable suit.

My partner took my 2 Heart bid as a preempt and passed. Was he correct? If so, how do you indicate an opening hand and suit preference after opponent's 1 NT? We should have been in 4 Hearts.
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#2 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2017-September-05, 17:39

It depends on the range of the notrump bid, and partnership bidding philosophy. Against a strong notrump, making game is relatively rare, so many partnerships prioritize partial bidding over game bidding, agreeing to come in on weaker distributional hands relatively often with expectation that partner won't try for game too often, risking going to 3 level down 1. Only trying for game with exceptional fit and values. The idea is to get to a lot of partials your way when the opps make 1nt or something else, or push them higher to set them, at the cost of missing some games that people who wait for stronger hands to overcall might reach.

Missing game with this strength with that partnership agreement would be common. Usually with flat 5332 hands, you don't bid, just try to beat 1nt as much as possible. Bidding on only 5 cd suit is a bit dangerous since partner might be misfit, opps may double you, and with flat hands it is maybe easier to take 7 tricks with opening lead tempo than 8 tricks as declarer. With flat hand often your best strain is notrump, just opps beat you to it so defend rather than declare. Works best when opps vul, several undertrick penalty partially compensates for game your way.

Against weaker notrump game is more common, so the initial action is often kept stronger so partner can invite game more often. Your hand could try doubling 1nt for penalty, possibly bidding hearts later depending if opponents run and if partner doubles the runout or not, and whether your partnership plays those doubles as takeout or penalty.
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#3 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2017-September-05, 17:43

2H is not pre-emptive, but it doesn't necessarily show that good a hand (though what the minimum is depends somewhat on their NT range - can assume 15-17 unless stated otherwise). Your other options would be to pass or double (if available).
Wayne Somerville
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#4 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2017-September-05, 17:56

View Postjlgoose, on 2017-September-05, 17:05, said:

We had a hand today that I did not know how to bid.

East opened 1NT
As South, I held 5 Hearts (AKQ), a total of 14 HCP, no other biddable suit.

My partner took my 2 Heart bid as a preempt and passed. Was he correct? If so, how do you indicate an opening hand and suit preference after opponent's 1 NT? We should have been in 4 Hearts.


I think that you have two reasonable choice

1. Double
2. Pass

You're on opening lead against a NT contract. In a perfect world, you'll cash 5 tricks off the top.
More likely, you're going to get three, lose one, and then get in with a side honor and cash your last heart.

Personally, I lean towards pass since it gives less information to the opponents.

The big question is what happens if the auction goes

(1N) - P - (2H) - P
(2S) - ???

If you're 2=5=3=3 you might then consider a double, but ake sure that partner is on the same wavelength about what a 2NT advance would show
Alderaan delenda est
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#5 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-September-05, 18:10

What was the range of the NT opening?
If something cannot go on forever, it will stop. - Herb Stein
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#6 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-September-05, 18:41

Hi jlgoose. Welcome to the forum :)

Over a 1NT bid, any bid at the 3 level is pre-emptive but you need usually at least a 7 card suit, and a weaker hand just like normal opening pre-emptive bids. Something like KQJxxxx xx x xxx But with all bids it also depends on the vulnerability too.

Your 2 bid with AKQxx was an overcall, and whilst my fellow posters have indicated it wasn't quite the right bid given your hand, 14 HCPs, if you are relatively newish to this game then it's what you felt was the right bid given your knowledge.

It sounds like partner had good support for you and did not raise. As Stephen indicated, if the opponents open 1NT with a 15-17 hand, then it's extremely rare for you and your partner to have game. A major suit game usually requires 25-26 HCPs so if the opponents have at least 15+, your chance of game is very low but good distribution can make up for that.
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#7 User is offline   jlgoose 

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Posted 2017-September-06, 20:58

View PostStephen Tu, on 2017-September-05, 17:39, said:

It depends on the range of the notrump bid, and partnership bidding philosophy. Against a strong notrump, making game is relatively rare, so many partnerships prioritize partial bidding over game bidding, agreeing to come in on weaker distributional hands relatively often with expectation that partner won't try for game too often, risking going to 3 level down 1. Only trying for game with exceptional fit and values. The idea is to get to a lot of partials your way when the opps make 1nt or something else, or push them higher to set them, at the cost of missing some games that people who wait for stronger hands to overcall might reach.

Missing game with this strength with that partnership agreement would be common. Usually with flat 5332 hands, you don't bid, just try to beat 1nt as much as possible. Bidding on only 5 cd suit is a bit dangerous since partner might be misfit, opps may double you, and with flat hands it is maybe easier to take 7 tricks with opening lead tempo than 8 tricks as declarer. With flat hand often your best strain is notrump, just opps beat you to it so defend rather than declare. Works best when opps vul, several undertrick penalty partially compensates for game your way.

Against weaker notrump game is more common, so the initial action is often kept stronger so partner can invite game more often. Your hand could try doubling 1nt for penalty, possibly bidding hearts later depending if opponents run and if partner doubles the runout or not, and whether your partnership plays those doubles as takeout or penalty.



Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed comments.
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#8 User is offline   jlgoose 

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Posted 2017-September-06, 20:59

View Postmanudude03, on 2017-September-05, 17:43, said:

2H is not pre-emptive, but it doesn't necessarily show that good a hand (though what the minimum is depends somewhat on their NT range - can assume 15-17 unless stated otherwise). Your other options would be to pass or double (if available).


Thanks.
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#9 User is offline   jlgoose 

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Posted 2017-September-06, 21:00

View Posthrothgar, on 2017-September-05, 17:56, said:

I think that you have two reasonable choice

1. Double
2. Pass

You're on opening lead against a NT contract. In a perfect world, you'll cash 5 tricks off the top.
More likely, you're going to get three, lose one, and then get in with a side honor and cash your last heart.

Personally, I lean towards pass since it gives less information to the opponents.

The big question is what happens if the auction goes

(1N) - P - (2H) - P
(2S) - ???

If you're 2=5=3=3 you might then consider a double, but ake sure that partner is on the same wavelength about what a 2NT advance would show


Thanks so much.
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#10 User is offline   jlgoose 

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Posted 2017-September-06, 21:05

View PostThe_Badger, on 2017-September-05, 18:41, said:

Hi jlgoose. Welcome to the forum :)

Over a 1NT bid, any bid at the 3 level is pre-emptive but you need usually at least a 7 card suit, and a weaker hand just like normal opening pre-emptive bids. Something like KQJxxxx xx x xxx But with all bids it also depends on the vulnerability too.

Your 2 bid with AKQxx was an overcall, and whilst my fellow posters have indicated it wasn't quite the right bid given your hand, 14 HCPs, if you are relatively newish to this game then it's what you felt was the right bid given your knowledge.

It sounds like partner had good support for you and did not raise. As Stephen indicated, if the opponents open 1NT with a 15-17 hand, then it's extremely rare for you and your partner to have game. A major suit game usually requires 25-26 HCPs so if the opponents have at least 15+, your chance of game is very low but good distribution can make up for that.


Thanks for your reply. I do understand, now, that it was not the correct bid. When I made it, my intention was to disrupt their bidding more than anything else. I had no idea we would have such a good fit and so many hearts between us (10).
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#11 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2017-September-06, 21:40

Welcome to the forum. I suggest you not requote posts in their entirety just to thank the author, clutters the thread unnecessarily. Just make a single small post, e.g. Thanks to all for your input.

If you wish further discussion/clarification of a particular point then just quote the relevant snippet of the post.
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