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Rate The Bid

Poll: Rate The Bid (33 member(s) have cast votes)

Rate 2H Bid

  1. Insane (3 votes [9.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  2. Poor (20 votes [60.61%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 60.61%

  3. Close but I wouldn't (4 votes [12.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.12%

  4. Close and I would (3 votes [9.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  5. Good (1 votes [3.03%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.03%

  6. Automatic (Pass is Insane) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Abstain (2 votes [6.06%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.06%

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#1 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 02:21

love all MP 2d = weak



Thanks,

Eagles
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#2 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 02:35

You're bidding at the two-level. Its a poor suit, which you don't want partner to lead. Ten points with QX in spades is of dubious value, no connected honours, no intermediaries. East is unlimited and might be preparing to double. Partner can always protect.

I've made worse over-calls, but yes, its poor.
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#3 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 03:45

Insane is a bit much, but only a bit. Some 2632 10 counts are automatic, but this one is pretty ragged.

So poor is about right. Any time partner is going to take a close decision, he will hope for you to have more than this, and that doesn't rate to end well.
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#4 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 08:15

Partner will always balance when it is right and always overbid after this overcall unless we are in the dumpster already. Well, 99%.

Worse is the message it sends that you don't trust partner in balancing position (and they shouldn't trust you in direct!). I voted poor but it's awfully close to insane for what it will do to the rest of the session even if it works.
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#5 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 08:32

Urgh! Luckily we're not red🤣. Still close but not for me this time, sorry.
I feel more confortable balancing 3H after it goes 3D pass pass than acting now with such poor values. I fear partner will count on more stuff. Make the SQ HQ and then only facing a snow-white purist would I pass.
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 09:18

Depends how aggressively partner balances, and what the maximum for a simple overcall is for you here, what are you going to do if it goes P-P-2-P- ? You're likely to play a 5-2 spade fit instead of a 6-2 heart fit if you pass, and might get too high if you bid. My instinct is to pass, because while we double on air in 4th seat, we usually have something for an overcall.
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#7 User is online   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 09:32

I've just voted 'Insane' - apologies. The hand isn't worth an opening bid, so what gives you the right to overcall at the 2 level with a grot suit? I'll quite happily balance with 3 if they raise to 3and partner can't come in, otherwise have confidence in your partner that he is able to balance if 2 is passed to him.
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#8 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 09:50

If this was imps I would vote insane. At MP I've seen insane you wouldn't believe it.
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#9 User is online   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 12:10

View Poststeve2005, on 2017-August-08, 09:50, said:

If this was imps I would vote insane. At MP I've seen insane you wouldn't believe it.


LOL. If there was a box to tick that said 'Desperate' I might have ticked that rather than 'Insane'. Yes, MPs is a game where anything can happen, and usually does, in the course of a session.
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#10 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 12:39

View Poststeve2005, on 2017-August-08, 09:50, said:

If this was imps I would vote insane. At MP I've seen insane you wouldn't believe it.


Curiously, I would be more likely to make the bid at IMPs. Opponents are far less likely to double for penalties at IMPs (risking doubling you into game). And at IMPs, you at least have the potential upside of bidding a slim game.

If you swap the hearts and spades and I would be seriously considering a 2 bid - there is a big difference between owning and not owning the spade suit.
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#11 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 13:05

Poor, at best for all the reasons outlined by previous posters.

If somehow you get an inkling that making the bid is tactically right, be prepared to make profuse apologies to partner if it turns out badly. If it works out, well, no one can ever claim that good matchpoints is necessarily good bridge.
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#12 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 21:29

With ... I'd say poor. If the suit was , I'd probably do it. wins MP.
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#13 User is offline   StevenG 

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Posted 2017-August-09, 03:33

The problem with MPs bidding problems is that they are context dependent. If I'm playing in a club MPs and I have this hand, I'm extremely unlucky to get a weak 2 to my right, because almost everybody plays some variant of Benji. The rest of the room will have a pass to their right, then nearly all will open this hand with a weak 2. So, for me, the tactical question is whether I gain or lose against those players by not showing my hearts. My experience is that I lose, which is why I voted, as I did, close but to bid.

I was surprised that almost everyone is so sure that it is poor, or even insane. I suppose that if you play, as most here do, in a world where everyone will have a weak 2 to their right the tactics will be different, and a player's experience, and therefore instincts, will be different. (I voted blind, as I almost always do, so I hadn't thought about it from that perspective until I started seeing the comments come in.)

Rowland plays in the London area, where, I understand, methods are a lot different from here, but I would guess (and I don't know) that there are enough Benji-type players where he plays to make this problem a little less straightforward.
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#14 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-August-09, 08:23

I play in London as well. Last night in a very mixed-ability 17-table game I would guess that there were around 4-6 pairs playing some sort of Benji and one or two playing some sort of Multi. At other clubs and at tournaments Multi far, far outnumbers Benji. I will do a sample this weekend (players from all parts of the UK) and I predict that Weak 2 will be a clear but not huge majority treatment.
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#15 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2017-August-09, 10:50

i went with insane. What does the 2h bid accomplish here in direct seat opposite an unlimited p and lho? Surely your confidence in partner's PO seat abilities is not that low:))) And if perchance the bidding were to go 2d p 3d or 2d p 4d and p does not chip in what do you think a 3/4h balancing bid by you would mean?? You know p is short in diamonds yet could not bid over 3d or 4d surely they will not leave you in hearts (a suit u could not overcall at 2 lvl) w/o reasonable support. Odds of getting to the best strain increase dramatically if you pass now and back in later if needed. If p wants to x the opps surely they will be ummmm errr REALLY disappointed in what you bring to that contract. I did not even bother to mention the possibility of getting the x in hearts when we might easily have superior contracts in 3 other places and no way we will espcape (yeah yeah its only 1 board and its more FUN to bid).
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#16 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-August-09, 11:14

View Postgszes, on 2017-August-09, 10:50, said:

i went with insane. What does the 2h bid accomplish here in direct seat opposite an unlimited p and lho? Surely your confidence in partner's PO seat abilities is not that low:))) And if perchance the bidding were to go 2d p 3d or 2d p 4d and p does not chip in what do you think a 3/4h balancing bid by you would mean?? You know p is short in diamonds yet could not bid over 3d or 4d surely they will not leave you in hearts (a suit u could not overcall at 2 lvl) w/o reasonable support. Odds of getting to the best strain increase dramatically if you pass now and back in later if needed. If p wants to x the opps surely they will be ummmm errr REALLY disappointed in what you bring to that contract. I did not even bother to mention the possibility of getting the x in hearts when we might easily have superior contracts in 3 other places and no way we will espcape (yeah yeah its only 1 board and its more FUN to bid).


What it achieves is that it saves you the problem of what to do over 2-P-P-2-P (similar issue if he bids 3, how good is he ? do you have game on or 140 in hearts or is 3 the last making spot ?)

If you pass, parner will be 5224/5233/53(32), if you bid he'll be 6124 and you'll likely be too high (possibly far too high opposite a minimum balance).

I still don't want to make the bid, but it's far from insane
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#17 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2017-August-09, 11:40

View PostCyberyeti, on 2017-August-09, 11:14, said:

What it achieves is that it saves you the problem of what to do over 2-P-P-2-P (similar issue if he bids 3, how good is he ? do you have game on or 140 in hearts or is 3 the last making spot ?)

If you pass, parner will be 5224/5233/53(32), if you bid he'll be 6124 and you'll likely be too high (possibly far too high opposite a minimum balance).

I still don't want to make the bid, but it's far from insane


I am dense --- I do not see yet how bidding 2h helps solve your proposed problems. It still seems to be that bidding 2h would be far more likely to encourage partner to overbid than if we pass originally. I can see you are an optimist granting partner a singleton heart when you bid 2h (I always get a void sigh).
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#18 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-August-09, 13:49

View Postgszes, on 2017-August-09, 11:40, said:

I am dense --- I do not see yet how bidding 2h helps solve your proposed problems. It still seems to be that bidding 2h would be far more likely to encourage partner to overbid than if we pass originally. I can see you are an optimist granting partner a singleton heart when you bid 2h (I always get a void sigh).


I'm saying that the potential upside is that you will play in hearts when it's right to play in hearts, which might not happen otherwise. The downside is that you play in hearts when it isn't, and sometimes too many of them when it is.

It's a value judgement, and I think it's closer than you do. Nobody will answer what they're going to do if partner balances in one of the blacks. If partner knows I will bid with this, he doesn't need to balance on some of the ropier hands he might otherwise feel forced to.
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#19 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2017-August-10, 11:42

full board if anyones interested:

https://app.pianola....6/Travellers/11



no comment on the opp bidding - I was south and thought the 2H bid was very bad, but it's easy in the heat of the moment when it's led to a bad result, some of the comments on here have been very interesting and food for thought.

Maybe I shouldn't x idk

Thanks,

Eagles
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#20 User is online   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-August-10, 12:20

View Posteagles123, on 2017-August-10, 11:42, said:

Maybe I shouldn't x

Eagles


Double's ok in my opinion. Two things went against you: partner made a flaky bid; the opener was 6-5-0. Don't blame yourself. The BBO forum members have unanimously voted that your partner's bid was a tad too aggressive. On another day it might have worked well.
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