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A Thought About Profiles...

#1 User is online   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 00:38

While many players will make an effort to complete their BBO profile convention section accurately, many others just leave it empty. Which I am sure makes it virtually impossible when you get to play with or against them to know exactly what they are doing. I have a suggestion:-

Why doesn't BBO make it compulsory for any player who is registered with BBO to have a convention card of sorts in their profile. I am not suggesting a full card but something akin to the stock market where companies are listed by a four letter abbreviation. A pop-up pick list would need to be completed before any profile becomes live.

Most bridge conventions and systems can probably be reduced to a four or less letter/number format. Here's a sampler : 1517, stay, ckbk, xyz, 2/1, blue, sayc, nmf, trnf, mich, 2022, pupp, smol, lebl, prec, acol, rkcb, jaNT, berg, wjos, muid, invm, supX...

Standardising the most popular conventions and systems in use today, and being used by BBO players, would make it easier all round for all players to read a profile when playing in a pick-up game as many do.

A few players already use something akin to this in their profiles: having it standardised and used by all players would help enormously I feel.

Just a thought...
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#2 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 06:14

Why not just have people list which BBO convention cards they are willing to use? I have seen some of these convention profiles and they will often contain mutually exclusive things in a effort to cater to different partners.

But if you yourself have a convention list in your profile, why not just suggest that a partner play that?
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#3 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 07:19

Idea: A (moderated?) thread where each post is a CC for the poster.
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#4 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 09:04

View PostThe_Badger, on 2017-August-08, 00:38, said:

Why doesn't BBO make it compulsory for any player who is registered with BBO to have a convention card of sorts in their profile.

Because not everyone needs it. They use convention cards, or they only play with their friends, etc.

That's not what the profile was created for, it's a place where you can put any interesting information about yourself if you wish. Using it to list favorite conventions was an unintended consequence.

#5 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 09:47

Everyone can post a favorite CC in their profile. This is sort of what the original poster wants.
Very few people use this.
Most people who are using favorite CC is their fav partner. But you could put what you want to play with stranger without much discussion.
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#6 User is online   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-August-08, 12:28

View Postbarmar, on 2017-August-08, 09:04, said:

That's not what the profile was created for, it's a place where you can put any interesting information about yourself if you wish. Using it to list favorite conventions was an unintended consequence.


Well, I didn't know that, Barry. Thanks for informing me. I obviously realise that re-jigging any aspect of BBO, especially profiles, could be extremely time consuming and unwieldy, but it is still a personal bugbear that players who play in pick-up games, especially those that have logged in many times, cannot be bothered to put any information about systems/conventions on their profiles. When players specify 'No profile, no play' I know that I'm not the only one who feels strongly about this.
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#7 User is offline   RD350LC 

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Posted 2017-August-09, 09:17

View PostThe_Badger, on 2017-August-08, 12:28, said:

Well, I didn't know that, Barry. Thanks for informing me. I obviously realise that re-jigging any aspect of BBO, especially profiles, could be extremely time consuming and unwieldy, but it is still a personal bugbear that players who play in pick-up games, especially those that have logged in many times, cannot be bothered to put any information about systems/conventions on their profiles. When players specify 'No profile, no play' I know that I'm not the only one who feels strongly about this.

I agree-I really don't like playing with people who do not have a profile. But, I do things a bit differently. I put up No profile, NO CONVENTIONS. That means no transfers, no negative doubles, and 4NT bids are always natural, among other items.
When I pass a 4NT bid, they may get annoyed, but they soon realize that I mean what I say.
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#8 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-August-09, 09:48

Anyway, we've had this discussion dozens of times before. Different people use BBO differently.

#9 User is offline   hunebelle 

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Posted 2017-August-09, 14:08

..... better still if folks understood the full theory and use of the conventions they do list. Most do not seem to have read past the first line of Blackwood for instance, others seem to think that nominating "transfers" turns them into an advanced player. The entire profile thing is full of issues and at the general level not worth the effort. Perhaps another area for serious players where stricter controls could be policed
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#10 User is offline   RD350LC 

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Posted 2017-August-09, 15:15

View Posthunebelle, on 2017-August-09, 14:08, said:

..... better still if folks understood the full theory and use of the conventions they do list. Most do not seem to have read past the first line of Blackwood for instance, others seem to think that nominating "transfers" turns them into an advanced player. The entire profile thing is full of issues and at the general level not worth the effort. Perhaps another area for serious players where stricter controls could be policed

I agree. Many people think that knowing what a transfer is makes them an advanced player.
Also, when a person thinks that 1NT, 4NT is Blackwood needs to learn a few things. What I do when a person makes an ace response in that auction-they wind up playing 5 diamonds (or hearts or spades, as the case may be), maybe in a 3/1 fit, when either 4NT makes, or 6NT is cold.
But, as I have indicated previously, when a person has no profile, I play NO conventions. That means no transfers (2 level bids over 1NT are signoffs), no stayman (2C over 1NT is a weak signoff), and so forth. After a few hands like that, they get the message.
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#11 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-August-09, 16:04

View PostRD350LC, on 2017-August-09, 15:15, said:

But, as I have indicated previously, when a person has no profile, I play NO conventions. That means no transfers (2 level bids over 1NT are signoffs), no stayman (2C over 1NT is a weak signoff), and so forth. After a few hands like that, they get the message.


But why? Why not put your own favourite system in your own profile and ask your partners to play it?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#12 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-August-10, 09:57

View PostRD350LC, on 2017-August-09, 15:15, said:

But, as I have indicated previously, when a person has no profile, I play NO conventions. That means no transfers (2 level bids over 1NT are signoffs), no stayman (2C over 1NT is a weak signoff), and so forth. After a few hands like that, they get the message.

Maybe leaving their profile blank means they're willing to play their partner's system. After a few disasters, maybe you'll get the message. On the other hand, they could have written "I'll play your profile" to make this clear.

If you both have profiles, how do you know which one you're actually using?

I know it's kind of radical, but how about using chat to agree on something when you sit down, instead of all this passive-aggressive stuff?

#13 User is offline   bbstar 

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Posted 2017-August-10, 09:58

View Postbarmar, on 2017-August-08, 09:04, said:

Because not everyone needs it. They use convention cards, or they only play with their friends, etc.

That's not what the profile was created for, it's a place where you can put any interesting information about yourself if you wish. Using it to list favorite conventions was an unintended consequence.


The support of convention cards is deprecated.

As far as I remember some 5-10 years ago it was possible to modify conventsion cards. Not any more.

Currently it is possible to use some standard system templates, but it is not possible to modify them. Most pairs have *some* tweaks in opening style / competitive bidding / defensive carding. Hence using standard CC is misleading.
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#14 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-August-10, 10:02

View Postbbstar, on 2017-August-10, 09:58, said:

The support of convention cards is deprecated.

No it isn't.

Quote

As far as I remember some 5-10 years ago it was possible to modify conventsion cards. Not any more.

Yes it is. Go to My BBO > Convention Cards and you'll see a list of all your CCs, with Edit buttons next to them.

Maybe you thought we got rid of it because it was removed from the home screen during a redesign last year, but it's still in the menu. Or maybe you're thinking only of Full Disclosure CCs, which can only be updated using the download version of BB.

#15 User is online   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-August-10, 10:12

I feel that using SF's (short forms) for ones profile will hardly make it easier.Better way which I have experienced is to play your partners profile " as you understand it".This creates less bitterness.If the profile says" four suit transfers over 1NT"get it clarified if 2NT is transfer to 3D or natural and invitational.Play to partners profile. SF's will take much time to decipher and hence not good for "individual" events.They will serve the purpose in team events or a pair event with a fixed partner for all deals.
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#16 User is offline   scarletv 

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Posted 2017-August-10, 12:31

View Postbarmar, on 2017-August-10, 10:02, said:

Yes it is. Go to My BBO > Convention Cards and you'll see a list of all your CCs, with Edit buttons next to them.
If I would not know better I might think you are joking. There is nothing close to what I would name editing. Try to edit the ACOL Card or the KISS. Being able to enable or disable some checkboxes in GIB System is not what I would call edit.

Frozen convention cards are more or less useless for random partnerships when you cannot change them on the fly.
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#17 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-August-10, 15:06

View PostThe_Badger, on 2017-August-08, 00:38, said:

While many players will make an effort to complete their BBO profile convention section accurately, many others just leave it empty. Which I am sure makes it virtually impossible when you get to play with or against them to know exactly what they are doing. I have a suggestion:-

Why doesn't BBO make it compulsory for any player who is registered with BBO to have a convention card of sorts in their profile. I am not suggesting a full card but something akin to the stock market where companies are listed by a four letter abbreviation. A pop-up pick list would need to be completed before any profile becomes live.

Most bridge conventions and systems can probably be reduced to a four or less letter/number format. Here's a sampler : 1517, stay, ckbk, xyz, 2/1, blue, sayc, nmf, trnf, mich, 2022, pupp, smol, lebl, prec, acol, rkcb, jaNT, berg, wjos, muid, invm, supX...

Standardising the most popular conventions and systems in use today, and being used by BBO players, would make it easier all round for all players to read a profile when playing in a pick-up game as many do.

A few players already use something akin to this in their profiles: having it standardised and used by all players would help enormously I feel.

Just a thought...



On my profile I make it very clear that I will not entertain any invite from a player whose profile is 'anaemic'
It surely doesn't take long to provide some basic information about your playing system(!)
It's not a sin to play bridge,but it's a crime if you play it badly(!) ;)
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#18 User is offline   SelfGovern 

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Posted 2017-August-10, 21:51

View Postscarletv, on 2017-August-10, 12:31, said:

If I would not know better I might think you are joking. There is nothing close to what I would name editing. Try to edit the ACOL Card or the KISS. Being able to enable or disable some checkboxes in GIB System is not what I would call edit.

Frozen convention cards are more or less useless for random partnerships when you cannot change them on the fly.


What "frozen convention cards"?

When I'm playing with someone, say we're N/S -- I click on the "NS CC" button right above the chat window.
It brings up the current convention card (or lets me pick something like "GIB 2/1", and I can edit it to my
heart's content and then select "save". Those changes are immediately (upon clicking 'save') made available
at the table, and there's a popup message sent to the table that says "N/S are using a new convention card".

Unless this has been changed in the last week or so, anyway!

I think that people who think stuff typed into the profile is a convention card is any kind of substitute for a true
convention card are missing the boat. Get your favorite convention card together with the minimum stuff
you want to play (Jacoby, 3014, signalling, etc.), and then make that your "favorite convention card" (see
your own profile, it's a button at the bottom!). When you sit down with someone, say, "Hey, P -- see my
"favorite convention card" and if that's OK, let's play it!", and you're good to go, no?

Profiles are not convention cards!


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#19 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-August-11, 03:23

View PostPhilG007, on 2017-August-10, 15:06, said:

On my profile I make it very clear that I will not entertain any invite from a player whose profile is 'anaemic'
It surely doesn't take long to provide some basic information about your playing system(!)


Still can't get my head round this mentality. If you want conventions on a profil, put them on your own. Surely a partnership,doesn't need more than one.

Also I don't know what people have against the stock convention cards. Once you have us d it a couple of times, you will know it pretty well and know what to expect. You are not forming a serious partnership,with a pick-up partner; why not just use something familiar to both of you? Otherwise, as mentioned above, write your own and ask partner to play it.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#20 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-August-11, 09:26

View Postscarletv, on 2017-August-10, 12:31, said:

If I would not know better I might think you are joking. There is nothing close to what I would name editing. Try to edit the ACOL Card or the KISS. Being able to enable or disable some checkboxes in GIB System is not what I would call edit.

Frozen convention cards are more or less useless for random partnerships when you cannot change them on the fly.

Those CC's are all Full Disclosure cards. As I said, those can't be edited with the web version. You can create and edit ACBL and generic convention cards.

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