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2/1 system with no ACOL bid

Poll: 2/1 system with no ACOL bid (8 member(s) have cast votes)

Can 2/1 system work without 2 club ACOL opening?

  1. Yes (8 votes [100.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 100.00%

  2. No (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#21 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-August-04, 04:15

View PostKapi Blas, on 2017-August-04, 04:02, said:

I'm OK with opening very strong but not GF hands on 1 level. I play gazilli which should be a part of every 2/1 system in my opinion. While opening 1M and 1OM or 1NT response 2 is 11-15 with 4+ or 16+ any. Responder bids 2 with 8+ HCP "waiting" and openers 2M bid shows 11-15 HCP with clubs and every other response is 16+ and GF. For example the auction you mentioned:

1 -1
3

is showing 14-16 HCP hand with 5 and 5. Very usefull bidding tool played by most of the Italian pairs.


Interesting, we use the jump rebid for something similar but slightly different, 2 good 5+ card suits but not a good hand, can be a touch weaker than 14, we work off suit quality more than points. AQJxx, KQ10xx and out is fine.
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#22 User is offline   Kapi Blas 

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Posted 2017-August-04, 04:16

View PostZelandakh, on 2017-August-03, 16:42, said:

My system base is:-
--
1 = 15+ bal; or 15+ nat; or 18+ any
1 = 10-17, 4+ diamonds, unbal
1 = 10-17, 5+ hearts, unbal
1 = 10-17, 5+ spades, unbal
1NT = (11)12-14 bal
2 = 10-14, 54M or 6+ clubs
2 = mini-multi
2M = Muiderberg
2NT = both minors, weak
--

This can be found in a number of systems and can be combined with a number of different follow-ups (mine is relay-based). Perhaps this might work for you and provide some inspiration (without the relays).


Your system is very similar to Polish Club played in my country. I think that the biggest problem with strong club systems is they can't handle strong balanced hands. In your system all 15+ balanced holdings are in 1 opening. So its pretty hard to bid them in competetive auction .
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#23 User is offline   Kapi Blas 

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Posted 2017-August-04, 04:31

View PostCyberyeti, on 2017-August-04, 04:15, said:

Interesting, we use the jump rebid for something similar but slightly different, 2 good 5+ card suits but not a good hand, can be a touch weaker than 14, we work off suit quality more than points. AQJxx, KQ10xx and out is fine.


It is just the matter of partnership agreements, everyone can play what they are comfortable with. The most important thing in modern bridge is too bid on lower level with strong possibly slam hands and higher with weaker ones. Here is the example:

1-2"waiting" - i play this as GF with clubs, GF balanced, GF with exactly 3 card fit or 9-11 6+ minor invitational
2*- ?

*relay

2 - GF with clubs denies 3 spades
2 - 15+ HCP with 3 spades, slam try
2NT - GF balanced, relay, denies 3 spades
3 - 9-11 with 6+ invitational
3 - 9-11 with 6+ invitational
3 - 12-14 HCP with 3 spades
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#24 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2017-August-04, 04:40

View PostKapi Blas, on 2017-August-04, 04:31, said:

It is just the matter of partnership agreements, everyone can play what they are comfortable with. The most important thing in modern bridge is too bid on lower level with strong possibly slam hands and higher with weaker ones. Here is the example:

1-2"waiting" - i play this as GF with clubs, GF balanced, GF with exactly 3 card fit or 9-11 6+ minor invitational
2*- ?

*relay

2 - GF with clubs denies 3 spades
2 - 15+ HCP with 3 spades, slam try
2NT - GF balanced, relay, denies 3 spades
3 - 9-11 with 6+ invitational
3 - 9-11 with 6+ invitational
3 - 12-14 HCP with 3 spades


These bids can be very successfully preempted. How well does your system work over 1-(P)-2-(3)-

I don't think people preempt ambiguous bids like this that are not always GF enough.
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#25 User is offline   Kapi Blas 

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Posted 2017-August-04, 05:14

View PostCyberyeti, on 2017-August-04, 04:40, said:

These bids can be very successfully preempted. How well does your system work over 1-(P)-2-(3)-

I don't think people preempt ambiguous bids like this that are not always GF enough.


Pass - minimum hand
Dbl - as every double to a preempt im my system it shows a better hand with possibly 6+spades or good support to clubs if they was invitational, forcing
3 hearths - 5-5 shape GF
3 spades - minimum hand with 6+ spades
3NT - any strong hand we would accept invite with 6+ clubs
4 diamonds - very strong one suited hand, almost ACOL
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#26 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-August-04, 06:51

View PostCyberyeti, on 2017-August-04, 03:08, said:

The way round this problem is to play some sort of GF gadget rebid (we use 2N which is easier to do playing a weak NT), or to play change of suit as "forcing if you had a real response" or to play gazilli.

In one partnership I played Meckstroth Adjunct not only over 1M-1N but also over 1R-1M/N. (We opened 1, "NAT or BAL", with 18-19, 5H(332), btw.) So over 1-1,

(...)
2N = GF, no 5c or longer minor (=> 3 = relay (=> e.g. 3+ = NAT))
3m = GF, 5+ m
(...)

Certainly better than standard, and simpler than Gazzilli.
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