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Gambling 3NT or 5 of a minor

#1 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-July-09, 09:04

You are dealt a solid 9 card minor suit. Which bid is best ? A "Gambling" 3NT or 5 of the minor?
And does it make any difference at MP or IMPS? I personally prefer to bid the minor as it makes it almost impossible
for opponents to compete.
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#2 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-July-09, 09:22

A nine card 3NT opener is one too many card as far as I am concerned. Have seen it in many text books with either AKQJxxx or AKQxxxxx but never with 9 cards. So I am inclined towards bidding 5 of a minor whatever the vulnerability. As for IMPs or MPs, I might possibly vary my bid if one opponent has passed, even considering opening at the one level and rebidding at the five level, though I don't quite genuinely like that option as there are no defensive tricks outside the main suit (and maybe no defensive tricks whatsoever).
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#3 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2017-July-09, 16:32

I can think of a bunch of specialized agreements after a 3nt opener where partner bids 4 saying if your suit is clubs we are playing in them and you show shortness or partner bids 4 of a major as a cuebid and we wander into the magic slam.

Then I think way way back to the last time we opened 3nt, get a migraine and open 5 of them.
The race may not go to the swift nor the battle to the strong. But that's the way to bet it.
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#4 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2017-July-09, 18:40

View PostPhilG007, on 2017-July-09, 09:04, said:

You are dealt a solid 9 card minor suit. Which bid is best ? A "Gambling" 3NT or 5 of the minor?
And does it make any difference at MP or IMPS? I personally prefer to bid the minor as it makes it almost impossible for opponents to compete.

Some half-baked ideas.
When you hold a solid suit, notrump is often the best contract, even when the suit is more than 7 cards long. If you open 4 or more, it can be hard to stop in 4N.
The problem with the gambling 3N is that when 3N is the right contract, it's wrong-sided
e.g. x x x A K Q x x x x x x x
A better meaning for a 3N opener might be a long gappy minor with bits and pieces outside
e.g. Q K x J x A Q x x x x x x

But I'd prefer to use 3N for enormous hands - interested only in specific aces -- or honours in a specific suit.
e.g. K Q J T x x x - - K Q J T x x
e.g. A K K J T x x x x x - A K Q

How then should you handle solid-suited hands to give partner the opportunity to play 3N? Perhaps you should jump-rebid the suit. With a stronger hand or a non-solid suit, you might manufacture an artificial reverse, instead

In 4th seat, you can use a suit 3-opener to show a solid suit.
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#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-July-10, 06:57

1m or 5m, never 3NT. Like Nigel, I personally prefer to use a 3NT opening for some purpose other than Gambling. We have had threads on this subject before - some ideas are a good 4M preempt; a Namyats-type 4M preempt; a good 4m preempt; a 6-5 hand; or a specific ace ask.
(-: Zel :-)
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#6 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2017-July-10, 07:49

View Postnige1, on 2017-July-09, 18:40, said:

The problem with the gambling 3N is that when 3N is the right contract, it's wrong-sided
e.g. x x x A K Q x x x x x x x

That's very convincing in theory. In practice, I have gotten a good result every time I have opened a gambling 3NT. One reason - partner knows pretty much always whether to save in 5m over their 4M.

Quote

A better meaning for a 3N opener might be a long gappy minor with bits and pieces outside
e.g. Q K x J x A Q x x x x x x

Two problems. Partner might not know your minor. Or he might know the minor, and know that the best contract us 3m. (Opener has quite a bit of defense, and perhaps a Trump loser.
Obviously we have a recall bias in favour of the assholes. -helene_t
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#7 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2017-July-10, 11:42

View Postcherdano, on 2017-July-10, 07:49, said:

In practice, I have gotten a good result every time I have opened a gambling 3NT. One reason - partner knows pretty much always whether to save in 5m over their 4M.


Me too. Forget wrong siding 3nt as partner rarely passes unless it is guilt edged (and even then it's 50-50 at worst) and I have ended up right siding 5 or even 6 of a minor, mind you in a very small sample size.
The race may not go to the swift nor the battle to the strong. But that's the way to bet it.
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#8 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-July-11, 04:14

Some tools are available over a Gambling 3 NT for exploring for other contracts opposite a 7 or 8 trick solid minor, but partner just can't ever envision a 9 card solid suit. So depending on vulnerability, the hand should be opened at 1 m or 5 m.

Just to refresh those who might not recall the tools over a Gambling 3 NT --

at any level is pass or correct,

5 , 6 , 7 is to play. I know your suit and want to play from my side -- often to protect a holding in one of the suit,

4 asks for a singleton or void - 4 M= M shortness, 4 NT= no shortness, 5 of opener's suit= shortness in other minor,

4 NT asks "Do you have an extra trick?" - opener rebids 6 of suit with an extra trick, 5 of suit without an extra trick, and,

5 NT asks "Can you play opposite a void?" - opener rebids 7 of suit if can play without a loser opposite a void, 6 of suit if a loser exists,
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#9 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2017-July-11, 22:47

Quote

One reason - partner knows pretty much always whether to save in 5m over their 4M.



Unless you have nine tricks when partner only expects seven from you!


If you do open 3N on this, you are a) going to have to overrule partner when he wants to sit to 4M, and b) going to miss quite a few slams when partner has 3 or 4 tricks and passes you out in 3NT.


Put me down for 5m at unfavorable, otherwise 1m (heaven forbid we should mention opening 2C on 9 playing tricks....hehehe)
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#10 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2017-July-24, 06:59

I opened 3NT Gambling the other day, holding AKQxxxx in clubs. LHO doubled, and my partner redoubled. Redouble wasn't discussed (neither was pass), so I figured that it all should be system on (4C as pass/correct) and pass/redouble should be natural. Now my RHO bid 4H, all pass. They made 7H. 3NT redoubled would have been down 9. Lucky me RHO didn't pass!

My partner had Jxxxx in clubs :)
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#11 User is offline   WellSpyder 

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Posted 2017-July-24, 10:43

View PostKungsgeten, on 2017-July-24, 06:59, said:

I opened 3NT Gambling the other day, holding AKQxxxx in clubs. LHO doubled, and my partner redoubled. Redouble wasn't discussed (neither was pass), so I figured that it all should be system on (4C as pass/correct) and pass/redouble should be natural. Now my RHO bid 4H, all pass. They made 7H. 3NT redoubled would have been down 9. Lucky me RHO didn't pass!

My partner had Jxxxx in clubs :)

I think I would have treated the redouble as natural, too.....
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