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remembering learning responding to 2NT?

#1 User is offline   polarmatt 

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Posted 2017-July-01, 03:05

whats the best way to remember that when partner bids 2NT and we have less than 4 points and no particularly long suit that we should pass?
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#2 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-July-01, 03:53

View Postpolarmatt, on 2017-July-01, 03:05, said:

whats the best way to remember that when partner bids 2NT and we have less than 4 points and no particularly long suit that we should pass?


Do you remember that you should pass 1NT with this hand?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#3 User is online   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-July-01, 05:14

If you're new to the game, polarmatt - and I assume you are - there's quite a bit to learn and get your head around. I'm not going into the complicated stuff after 2NT like transfers, etc. but the basics.

Most players (whatever system they play) generally open 2NT with a balanced 20-22 count. You generally need 25-26 points for a 3NT or 4 of a major suit / game, though these days the more experienced players work on 25 being the minimum.

So even though 2NT is a strong bid it isn't a forcing bid. If you have nothing in your hand you just have to let the 2NT bidder do his best to try to make 8 tricks himself.

If you are trying to learn the game solely online, I would suggest that you invest in a bridge book that covers bidding and/or take some bridge lessons. These will greatly help you understand the mechanics of the game. And good luck!
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#4 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

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Posted 2017-July-01, 10:12

The easiest way to "remember" is to realize the goal of bidding every time it is your turn to bid.

"Do we have a game?" and "Do we have a fit (usually in a major)?" are the two questions that must be answered in every auction (at least the auctions where the opponents aren't also bidding.)

If you know the answers to both those questions, then place the contract.

If you don't know the answers, then make a bid that describes your hand and hope partner will know the answers, or that you will on your next turn.

I'm assuming you know what the opening 2NT means. If so, if you get the practice of asking yourself those two questions on every call, you will automatically do it when partner opens 2NT. You'll simply add your points to his, realize there's no game and no findable better spot. I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to remember to pass here as long as you think of your objective on every call.
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#5 User is offline   polarmatt 

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Posted 2017-July-03, 03:16

I remember now since i recorded myself saying if i've got 12 points i have a weak 1NT hand and i should bid 1NT. if partner responds with 2c hes asking me if i have a four card major and he has 8+ points. if i dont have a four card major i bid 2d. if i do i either bid 2h if i have four hearts or four spades or 2s if i have four spades.

easily remembered now after i recorded myself and play it back a few times an listen.
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#6 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

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Posted 2017-July-03, 10:59

View Postpolarmatt, on 2017-July-03, 03:16, said:

I remember now since i recorded myself saying if i've got 12 points i have a weak 1NT hand and i should bid 1NT. if partner responds with 2c hes asking me if i have a four card major and he has 8+ points. if i dont have a four card major i bid 2d. if i do i either bid 2h if i have four hearts or four spades or 2s if i have four spades.

easily remembered now after i recorded myself and play it back a few times an listen.
Why 8+ if you play a weak notrump?

Many books and pundits suggest 8+ points for bidding Stayman over a strong notrump (unless you intend to pass anything partner bids) because you need at least an invitational hand to play 2NT if partner doesn't have a major or doesn't have your major. If you're playing a weak notrump, 8 points isn't enough to invite. You need enough points to make game opposite the top of your range. That would be about 12 (perhaps a good 11 if you can distinguish a good 11 from a bad 11) opposite a 12-14 points; or about 11 opposite a 13-15 notrump. Some on here will suggest a point lower, but if you're just learning Stayman, you might want 26 points for game (including points for long suits.) Leave the 25 point games for the experts.

Now, it's possible that you and your partner have agreed to use Stayman sometimes to get out of 1NT with a weak hand with two four-card majors (in which case 1NT-2C-2D-2H is pass or correct), but if you play that, you don't need 8 points for this either because you've got more incentive to run with nothing than you do with 8 points.

Not playing a weak notrump, I'm not sure which approach is considered standard. Over the strong notrump, the standard meaning for 1NT-2C-2D-2H is still invitational (8-9, five hearts) and with a bad hand, you either pass or bid your long suit (using Jacoby Transfers if you play them, but if you don't, 1NT-2H just shows a hand that wants to play 2H and could have zero points.) Incidentally, if you do play Transfers, the auction 1NT-2C-2D-2H also shows four spades (otherwise you would have just transferred), and Stayman is preferred over transferring when you have 5-4 in the majors.

True story - I was recently at an event where people were learning to become bridge teachers (they were already supposed to know the game.) Many were shocked to hear the "standard" meaning of 1NT-2C-2D-2H. It's scary to think that these people will be teaching bridge.
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#7 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-July-04, 13:30

View PostKaitlyn S, on 2017-July-03, 10:59, said:

Over the strong notrump, the standard meaning for 1NT-2C-2D-2H is still invitational (8-9, five hearts) and with a bad hand, you either pass or bid your long suit (using Jacoby Transfers if you play them, but if you don't, 1NT-2H just shows a hand that wants to play 2H and could have zero points.) Incidentally, if you do play Transfers, the auction 1NT-2C-2D-2H also shows four spades (otherwise you would have just transferred), and Stayman is preferred over transferring when you have 5-4 in the majors.

True story - I was recently at an event where people were learning to become bridge teachers (they were already supposed to know the game.) Many were shocked to hear the "standard" meaning of 1NT-2C-2D-2H. It's scary to think that these people will be teaching bridge.


Well, at least now they know! But it probably doesn't matter, because the students will insist on being taught Jacoby transfers, because everyone they know plays them.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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