BBO Discussion Forums: strong deck - part 1 - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

strong deck - part 1

Poll: strong deck - part 1 (40 member(s) have cast votes)

Your call?

  1. Pass (2 votes [5.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  2. Double (6 votes [15.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.00%

  3. 1H (5 votes [12.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.50%

  4. 2C (25 votes [62.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 62.50%

  5. 2NT (2 votes [5.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  6. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   manudude03 

  • - - A AKQJT9876543
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,610
  • Joined: 2007-October-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-June-18, 19:41



This came up in a recent robot tourney, IMPs scoring. What's your plan here?
Wayne Somerville
1

#2 User is offline   MrAce 

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Joined: 2009-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 2017-June-18, 19:56

All options are flawed but 2 or 1 are the ones I hate less among others.. I would go with 2 for two reasons; (despite the fact that I am not fan of 2/1 overcalls with 5 card suit)
  • It makes it harder for W to bid and/or show spade suit effectively over 2. Which may prevent the auction to be jammed up before my 2nd turn comes.
  • It is my longer suit.

"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





2

#3 User is offline   steve2005 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,148
  • Joined: 2010-April-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hamilton, Canada
  • Interests:Bridge duh!

Posted 2017-June-18, 20:10

With human I would double. Gib handles these auctions horribly so stumped.
Sarcasm is a state of mind
0

#4 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,128
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2017-June-18, 23:06

View Postmanudude03, on 2017-June-18, 19:41, said:


This came up in a recent robot tourney, IMPs scoring. What's your plan here?

Horrible decision but I rank
  • Pass = NAT. Likely to get a chance to double s later.
  • Double = T/O. If partner bids 1/2/3s, then bid 3N, put your cards back in board, and start entering contract on your card.
  • 2N = UNT. Owing a .
  • 1 = NAT. Extra high cards might compensate for length.
  • 2 = NAT. Might get a chance to double opponents in s.

0

#5 User is offline   cartruck 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 51
  • Joined: 2017-May-18

Posted 2017-June-19, 07:03

Unusual 2NT. Don't like any bid really, but at that vulnerability we need to be in game.
0

#6 User is offline   johnu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,833
  • Joined: 2008-September-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-June-19, 15:29

View Poststeve2005, on 2017-June-18, 20:10, said:

With human I would double. Gib handles these auctions horribly so stumped.


I would never make an offshape takeout double playing with GIB. The chances of having a high level disaster are much too high.
1

#7 User is offline   geoffff 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: 2013-December-15

Posted 2017-June-20, 00:12

A number of issues go through my head:
1. Bidding with GIBs can be a bit fraught as ordinary bids or doubles are sometimes misinterpreted and trying to put things right always seem to lead to bidding getting out of control.
2. Max of 10 points between W and N so no great support expected.
3. At least 2 of Q , Q and K should be to your right, but you are likely to be leading from hand most of the time which may nullify this advantage.
4. East doesn't have a 5 card major so may be 10 between W and N. Thus distribution may be tricky all round.
In view of above, don't get carried away with enthusiasm.
0

#8 User is offline   gszes 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,654
  • Joined: 2011-February-12

Posted 2017-June-20, 01:52

too scary to pass at imps 1nt and x can lead to huge spade headaches. 2c seems normal but leaves little room for exploration and if p bids spades leaves us poorly placed for a continuation. 1h leaves all kinds of room for exploration and will rarely lead to a horrific contract so it seems to be the best overall choice.
0

#9 User is offline   PhilG007 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 973
  • Joined: 2013-February-24
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dundee Scotland United Kingdom
  • Interests:Occasional chess player. Dominoes

Posted 2017-June-20, 07:31

View Postmanudude03, on 2017-June-18, 19:41, said:



This came up in a recent robot tourney, IMPs scoring. What's your plan here?

My acute sense of danger tells me to pass. West has not yet bid and for me that
means a red light is flashing. West could have huge strength and any overcall by South
is highly dangerous and could result in a huge doubled penalty. There is a time and a place for taking risks but not here.
If West is weak and also passes,trust partner to keep the bidding open with a takeout double.
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster

Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)


"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
0

#10 User is offline   cartruck 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 51
  • Joined: 2017-May-18

Posted 2017-June-20, 08:23

View PostPhilG007, on 2017-June-20, 07:31, said:

My acute sense of danger tells me to pass. West has not yet bid and for me that
means a red light is flashing. West could have huge strength and any overcall by South
is highly dangerous and could result in a huge doubled penalty. There is a time and a place for taking risks but not here.
If West is weak and also passes,trust partner to keep the bidding open with a takeout double.


I respectfully disagree. With that distribution it is likely even after only the opening bid that E/W has at the very least a nice save in some suit to be down 2 or less, and you are sitting on a power hand vulnerable. 2 stoppers in , 18 HCP, and 2 suited after diamonds with AKJx in one and AQ8xx (8 is a card worthy of noting) in other.

At favorable vulnerability, you and your partner need to be in game. Period. Gutless, scared bidding rarely (if ever) wins a National Tournament with a chance to play in the World Olympiads. Which is mine and my father's goal.

Unusual 2NT is definitely the bid here. And I am the only one that voted for it. lmao

The last thing I want my partner to do is come in guns blazing with their spade suit. But that is exactly how most of you all here directed the bidding to go. You know he/she has spades. You know they are going to bid them. You don't want them to. Stop it immediately with Unusual 2NT. You should be controlling the bidding anyway with that hand.
0

#11 User is offline   eagles123 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,831
  • Joined: 2011-June-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK Near London
  • Interests:Crystal Palace

Posted 2017-June-20, 08:50

View Postcartruck, on 2017-June-20, 08:23, said:

I respectfully disagree. With that distribution it is likely even after only the opening bid that E/W has at the very least a nice save in some suit to be down 2 or less, and you are sitting on a power hand vulnerable. 2 stoppers in , 18 HCP, and 2 suited after diamonds with AKJx in one and AQ8xx (8 is a card worthy of noting) in other.

At favorable vulnerability, you and your partner need to be in game. Period. Gutless, scared bidding rarely (if ever) wins a National Tournament with a chance to play in the World Olympiads. Which is mine and my father's goal.

Unusual 2NT is definitely the bid here. And I am the only one that voted for it. lmao

The last thing I want my partner to do is come in guns blazing with their spade suit. But that is exactly how most of you all here directed the bidding to go. You know he/she has spades. You know they are going to bid them. You don't want them to. Stop it immediately with Unusual 2NT. You should be controlling the bidding anyway with that hand.


the fact you're the only one that voted for it should probably give u an indication that it's not "definitely the bid"

It's great to have new people join the forum but please realise there are some very good players on here (not me) and if literally no one is agreeing with your 2N bid there is a good reason for it.

eagles
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
1

#12 User is offline   cartruck 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 51
  • Joined: 2017-May-18

Posted 2017-June-20, 08:57

View Posteagles123, on 2017-June-20, 08:50, said:

the fact you're the only one that voted for it should probably give u an indication that it's not "definitely the bid"


I'm an expert from way back and my father used to play professionally and owned the #1 bridge club in North America at one time in Tamarac, FL that took over Jourdans in Boca Raton, FL for that honor. He agrees with me. You may want to listen.

My father was also on the Board of Directors for the Florida Bridge Unit that was the largest in the US at the time. Not sure if it still is or not. Beat an incumbent lady of 30+ years, and when he won it was announced while he was playing against Jeff Meckstroth and Eric Rodwell in Tampa, FL at a Regional Tournament. They are his friends too. Like I said, you may want to listen.

"Do Your Best and Finesse the Rest" was his campaign slogan and I still have one of his high quality refrigerator magnets to prove it. We are that good. Always.
0

#13 User is offline   cartruck 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 51
  • Joined: 2017-May-18

Posted 2017-June-20, 09:40

You can not find one out of 10,000 people better at numbers than I am. I don't need a calculator.

I, on the other hand, am actively looking to have conversations with those 1 out of 10,000 that are better than I am. I make mistakes every time I play. Not many, but I do recognize when I did. When you know you made a mistake every single time you do, that's when you are truly an expert at my favorite game, Bridge.
0

#14 User is offline   rmnka447 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,366
  • Joined: 2012-March-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois
  • Interests:Bridge, Golf, Soccer

Posted 2017-June-20, 11:16

2 - got to bid something and the hole is too much to recover from after partner's likely response.
0

#15 User is offline   cartruck 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 51
  • Joined: 2017-May-18

Posted 2017-June-20, 11:33

View Postrmnka447, on 2017-June-20, 11:16, said:

2 - got to bid something and the hole is too much to recover from after partner's likely response.


But, your 2 bid only entices your partner to bid spades, that you already know he has, and you don't want him to bid that. Why not entice him to tell you a little more, like any other suit? How can I be the only person that sees Unusual 2NT is the best bid here? Is it the different systems people play?
0

#16 User is offline   GrahamJson 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 560
  • Joined: 2014-October-11

Posted 2017-June-20, 12:02

I think that the reason that no other chose 2NT is because, for most, this shows an offensive hand whereas this one is very defensive. If the auction becomes competitive it is highly likely that partner will do wrong thing, such as making a phantom sacrifice.

As for the risk of partner getting carried away in spades, that doesn't seem too likely if you make a simple overcall. You can rebid NT once or twice after which he should realise the situation. Similarly if oppo compete in spades it is likely to be to their disappointment as partner may well hold a trump stack.

If put to an expert panel my guess is that they would be split between 1H and double. Experts seem less concerned about doubling on off centre hands if they are strong enough.
0

#17 User is offline   eagles123 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,831
  • Joined: 2011-June-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK Near London
  • Interests:Crystal Palace

Posted 2017-June-20, 12:05

View PostGrahamJson, on 2017-June-20, 12:02, said:

I think that the reason that no other chose 2NT is because, for most, this shows an offensive hand whereas this one is very defensive. If the auction becomes competitive it is highly likely that partner will do wrong thing, such as making a phantom sacrifice.

As for the risk of partner getting carried away in spades, that doesn't seem too likely if you make a simple overcall. You can rebid NT once or twice after which he should realise the situation. Similarly if oppo compete in spades it is likely to be to their disappointment as partner may well hold a trump stack.

If put to an expert panel my guess is that they would be split between 1H and double. Experts seem less concerned about doubling on off centre hands if they are strong enough.


I tried - I really wouldn't bother
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
0

#18 User is offline   cartruck 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 51
  • Joined: 2017-May-18

Posted 2017-June-20, 12:12

View PostGrahamJson, on 2017-June-20, 12:02, said:

I think that the reason that no other chose 2NT is because, for most, this shows an offensive hand whereas this one is very defensive. If the auction becomes competitive it is highly likely that partner will do wrong thing, such as making a phantom sacrifice.

As for the risk of partner getting carried away in spades, that doesn't seem too likely if you make a simple overcall. You can rebid NT once or twice after which he should realise the situation. Similarly if oppo compete in spades it is likely to be to their disappointment as partner may well hold a trump stack.

If put to an expert panel my guess is that they would be split between 1H and double. Experts seem less concerned about doubling on off centre hands if they are strong enough.


This is an offensive hand with game nearly assured somewhere, while the opponents are in prime save situation. Push the bidding, get to your game contract and be happy.
0

#19 User is offline   MrAce 

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Joined: 2009-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 2017-June-20, 12:35

View Postcartruck, on 2017-June-20, 08:57, said:

I'm an expert from way back and my father used to play professionally and owned the #1 bridge club in North America at one time in Tamarac, FL that took over Jourdans in Boca Raton, FL for that honor. He agrees with me. You may want to listen.

My father was also on the Board of Directors for the Florida Bridge Unit that was the largest in the US at the time. Not sure if it still is or not. Beat an incumbent lady of 30+ years, and when he won it was announced while he was playing against Jeff Meckstroth and Eric Rodwell in Tampa, FL at a Regional Tournament. They are his friends too. Like I said, you may want to listen.

"Do Your Best and Finesse the Rest" was his campaign slogan and I still have one of his high quality refrigerator magnets to prove it. We are that good. Always.


Rowland tried to tell you that you probably made an overstatement by saying "definitely the bid" when you are the only one to vote for 2 NT.

  • You being son of a former professional player has no relevance to the point he made.
  • Your father owning a biggest bridge club in NA once upon a time has no relevance to the point he made.
  • Your father being BOD in FL has no relevance to the point he made.
  • Your father having played vs Meckwell has no relevance to the point he made.
  • Your father being friend with Meckwell has no relevance to the point he made.
  • Your father's campaign slogan and "high quality refrigerator magnet" which somehow shows how good you guys are, has no relevance to the point he made.
  • Your father and his agreement with you has no relevance to the point he made.
  • How good you are with numbers and that you do not need a calculator, has no relevance to the point he made.

Now, all of these things that you felt the necessity of listing can be related to only and only one thing and I do not need to be shrink to say what it relates to. Posted Image


View Postcartruck, on 2017-June-20, 08:23, said:

The last thing I want my partner to do is come in guns blazing with their spade suit. But that is exactly how most of you all here directed the bidding to go. You know he/she has spades. You know they are going to bid them. You don't want them to. Stop it immediately with Unusual 2NT. You should be controlling the bidding anyway with that hand.


Now back to bridge....If you and your father has a weird idea that says "overcalling 2 directs partner into doing some guns blazing with a bad suit for the rest of the auction" then you and your father should seriously reconsider about wasting your time and money for nationals and Bridge Olympiads! No! 2 overcall does not promise spades, it never did, it never will! And bidding 2 NT NEVER meant "Partner, you are banned from bidding spades!" It never did , it never will! What is funniest among all the things that you spilled and I am still laughing, is your ability to see your partner's hand! Your partner and your LHO has EXACTLY the same odds of having spades, and LHO bids before your pd. Yet you wrote "He/She has spades" and for some reason known to you and GOD only, it will be our pd who will "come in guns blazing with spade suit"!!

And even if we all agree for the sake of argument that it will be our pd who will bid spades first and will not let us play 3 NT and bid spades again at 4 level, despite the fact that I did not even promise one single spade in my hand, so what? The way you talk someone who did not see your hand would think your hand can not tolerate anything BUT or as trump! Are you ****ing kidding me? You have AKJx and AQxxx ffs! If your pd is not leaving you in 3 NT pd has at least KQT9xxx xx xx xx. and your most likely game, if any, is in spades!

About your comment on you being expert...You are delusional!

Quote

I, on the other hand, am actively looking to have conversations with those 1 out of 10,000 that are better than I am

No! What you should be actively looking to do is to get your head out of your @ $$, ASAP!

Oh! And welcome to the forums, Rob!
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





1

#20 User is offline   manudude03 

  • - - A AKQJT9876543
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,610
  • Joined: 2007-October-02
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2017-June-20, 13:22

View PostMrAce, on 2017-June-20, 12:35, said:

If your pd is not leaving you in 3 NT pd has at least KQT9xxx xx xx xx. and your most likely game, if any, is in spades!


Oh you are going to laugh when you see the full hand :)
Wayne Somerville
0

  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users