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Strong deck - part 3 Well, this never got any easier

Poll: Strong deck - part 3 (14 member(s) have cast votes)

What now?

  1. Pass (12 votes [85.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 85.71%

  2. 4NT (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 5D (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 5H (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 5S (1 votes [7.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  6. 5NT (GSF) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. 6S (1 votes [7.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  8. 6NT (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  10. Abstain (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2017-June-18, 19:54

Part one is here
Part two is here

Robot tourney, IMPs scoring. I decided to go low with 3NT. Now partner pulls to 4S, what now? You can assume that 4S over 2C would have been natural, and therefore bidding this way shows a hand too good to bid 4S. What now?
Wayne Somerville
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#2 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2017-June-18, 20:09

View Postmanudude03, on 2017-June-18, 19:54, said:


Robot tourney, IMPs scoring. I decided to go low with 3NT. Now partner pulls to 4S, what now? You can assume that 4S over 2C would have been natural, and therefore bidding this way shows a hand too good to bid 4S. What now?


The assumption you make does not work well with GIB.(regarding the jump to 4 vs this one). I can imagine GIB bidding like this with something like KQJxxxxx Void xx Kxx.
I would pass unless in need of swing.


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#3 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-June-18, 20:55

If there was a club fit hopefully Gib would have cue bid 2D or pulled 3N to clubs.
any slam is hopeless unless spades are solid.
4N natural? even is probably not enough entries to take much tricks in spades
think you have no choice but to trust Gib and pass
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#4 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-June-18, 22:34

pass
If something cannot go on forever, it will stop. - Herb Stein
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#5 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2017-June-18, 23:39

View Postmanudude03, on 2017-June-18, 19:54, said:

Part one is here
Part two is here
Robot tourney, IMPs scoring. I decided to go low with 3NT. Now partner pulls to 4S, what now? You can assume that 4S over 2C would have been natural, and therefore bidding this way shows a hand too good to bid 4S. What now?

I rank
  • 5 = NAT. IMO this asks about trump solidity.
  • 4N = RKC? But I suppose it could be NAT.
  • Pass = NAT. Take the money.
  • 6 = NAT. You have a bit to spare for your previous bidding and you never promised support.
  • 6N = NAT. Might avoid a ruff; but If partner just has solid s, then you might not relish the post-mortem.

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#6 User is offline   cartruck 

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Posted 2017-June-19, 07:16

I bid unusual 2NT first bid so our bidding would have probably gone differently. If I bid as you did, I would probably just pass 4.
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#7 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2017-June-20, 01:58

The bidding has taken up all the bidding space and so we are left to ponder what p might have. That spade void still leaves me too much concern to consider slam. pass
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#8 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-June-20, 11:20

Pass.

When there's just no way to know if partner's got the proper tickets for slam, there's no reason to move forward
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#9 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2017-June-20, 14:02

At the risk of prematurely ending the debate, particularly on part 1:



No-one even managed to get to 6, yet this had 15 top tricks. 4S+3 actually gained 1.44 imps when someone passed and then left in partner's reopening double, only to find 1D can't be touched.
Wayne Somerville
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#10 User is offline   cartruck 

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Posted 2017-June-20, 17:34

View Postmanudude03, on 2017-June-20, 14:02, said:

At the risk of prematurely ending the debate, particularly on part 1:



No-one even managed to get to 6, yet this had 15 top tricks. 4S+3 actually gained 1.44 imps when someone passed and then left in partner's reopening double, only to find 1D can't be touched.


With my strong 2NT bid showing and at that vulnerability, my partner would have taken us to 6 with complete control of that suit like that.

EDIT: What did I win? :D
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#11 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-June-20, 20:31

Seeing the full hand it is obvious In retrospect that 1 would have worked best. This evening I overcalled on a similar chunky heart suit, with diamonds very much like the clubs on this hand. I voted in the original poll to make a 2-level overcall on the poorish 5-card suit, but... is partner going to advance with a 4-card heart suit?

Of course anything I say about warming to the 1 overcall cannot be trusted since I have seen the whole hand, especially because Cthonic will give partner Jxx.
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#12 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-June-20, 20:36

View PostVampyr, on 2017-June-20, 20:31, said:

Seeing the full hand it is obvious In retrospect that 1 would have worked best. This evening I overcalled on a similar chunky heart suit, with diamonds very much like the clubs on this hand. I voted in the original poll to make a 2-level overcall on the poorish 5-card suit, but... is partner going to advance with a 4-card heart suit?

Of course anything I say about warming to the 1 overcall cannot be trusted since I have seen the whole hand, especially because Cthonic will give partner Jxx.


With a self sufficient suit that can never be adequately conveyed to partner, why the mudane 3S, 4S? I would have splintered, and then bid spades, spades, and more spades until partner was convinced of my disregard for clubs.
If something cannot go on forever, it will stop. - Herb Stein
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#13 User is offline   cartruck 

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Posted 2017-June-20, 20:49

View PostVampyr, on 2017-June-20, 20:31, said:

Seeing the full hand it is obvious In retrospect that 1 would have worked best. This evening I overcalled on a similar chunky heart suit, with diamonds very much like the clubs on this hand. I voted in the original poll to make a 2-level overcall on the poorish 5-card suit, but... is partner going to advance with a 4-card heart suit?

Of course anything I say about warming to the 1 overcall cannot be trusted since I have seen the whole hand, especially because Cthonic will give partner Jxx.


Even in retrospect, my Unusual 2NT bid works if instead of Qxx in , partner had Jxx, or Kxx, or Kx in , or Jx in , or a host of other possibilities.
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#14 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-June-20, 20:53

View Postcartruck, on 2017-June-20, 20:49, said:

Even in retrospect, my Unusual 2NT bid works if instead of Qxx in , partner had Jxx, or Kxx, or Kx in , or Jx in , or a host of other possibilities.


The fact that you bid it with a 4-card suit (the major, no less) is going to lose a lot more in partnership trust than you gain on this hand.
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#15 User is offline   cartruck 

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Posted 2017-June-20, 20:59

View PostVampyr, on 2017-June-20, 20:53, said:

The fact that you bid it with a 4-card suit (the major, no less) is going to lose a lot more in partnership trust than you gain on this hand.


My father and I play Unusual 2NT, Michael's, etc. knowing that we could be as little as 4-4. It works well for us in key situations. We don't do it all the time, but we do.
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#16 User is offline   GrahamJson 

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Posted 2017-June-21, 06:49

Looks like my initial choice of 1H wins all the coconuts. The auction continues 5NT - 7H - 7S, exactly as I thought it might.
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#17 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2017-June-21, 13:56

View Postmanudude03, on 2017-June-20, 14:02, said:

At the risk of prematurely ending the debate, particularly on part 1:



No-one even managed to get to 6, yet this had 15 top tricks. 4S+3 actually gained 1.44 imps when someone passed and then left in partner's reopening double, only to find 1D can't be touched.


North had exactly the hand I pictured based on the bidding :rolleyes:
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#18 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-June-21, 16:52

View Postcartruck, on 2017-June-20, 20:59, said:

My father and I play Unusual 2NT, Michael's, etc. knowing that we could be as little as 4-4. It works well for us in key situations. We don't do it all the time, but we do.


Does it work because you don't disclose it adequately?
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#19 User is offline   cartruck 

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Posted 2017-June-22, 07:44

View PostVampyr, on 2017-June-21, 16:52, said:

Does it work because you don't disclose it adequately?


C'mon. Don't hate it 'cause you ain't it.
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#20 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2017-June-22, 11:17

deleted
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
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