[benlessard]

Three years ago i wrote this http://www.bridgebas...ter-1d-opening/

I didnt play with this scheme since my 1D is unbalanced but i did bid a lot of practice hands.

I got an email from a player playing this scheme system but without the inversion. It allow him to bid 1H with both majors and discard the need for reverse Flannery (lame convention IMO) Ive decide to think about what it look without the inversion to better understand the mechanic of 1D-1H-1S artificial. I did some minor tweek and start to teach the method with the inversion to some promising university juniors.


So lets see without the inversion first.

1D--??

1H= 4H may have longer ♠
1S= ♠ denies 4H (I guess a later 2H by responder will be ART or some exception with both M)

1D-1H-??

1S = 4S or 3H (except 3343)
1NT = 3154,3244,3253, or 2254 with good ♠ (Kx,HH,) notice that most of these hands have 3!S so if responder is 4H+5S or 5H+5S he can safely rebid ♠
2C = ??55,??64, 2254 with poor ♠, 3154 (with extras) it always denies 4S/3H,
2D = 6D denies 4S/3H and 4C unless vgood ♦ and poor clubs.

The tricky part is

1D-1H-1S-??

1NT = 5-10 deny 4S/6H/4D may have 5H
2C = XYZ type of bid, to play 2D or many INV.
2D = Non inv with 4S or GF unclear direction
2H = Non INV with 6H
2S = non INV with 6S+4H *** (the inv work better)
2NT = natural INV with no D tolerance, 4324,4225,4??6 (with a bal inv and D tol you go via 2C-2D-2NT)
3C+ = GF clear direction

1D-1H-1S-1NT-??

2C = art extras (natural is unlikely 4144,4054)
2D = 6D+4S or 6D+3H but no interest to play in H in a possible 4-3 fit ( i previously argued VS awm but he was right, I amde a mistake to think 2D should be for 6D+ 3H,)
2H = 3 card ♥ unbalanced minimum. 3361, 2362 etc... you lose the ability to play 2D instead of 2H in 4-3)
2S = reverse D+S (not always GF)
2NT+ GF with 3 card support.


1D-1H-1S-2C-?? (2C is many INV or to play 2D)

2D any hand under 17 pts
2H 16-17 with 3H NF
2S 16-17 with 4S NF
2NT 18+ with 4S
rest is GF with 3H

1D-1H-1S-2C-2D
2H = Here without the inversion I dont see how it can work.
2S = Here without the inversion I dont see how it can work.

With the inversion this segment work pretty well.

1D-1H (4+D,show 4S may have H)
1S-2C (3S or 4H, puppet to 2D)
2D-?? (2D was forced unless 17+

2H= INV with both M you may endup in 4-3 !S fit however
2S= INV exactly 5S
2NT= INV denies 4H denies 5S, with D tolerance
3C= INV 4S+6C
3D= INV 4S+4/5D
3H= INV with 4S+6H

1D-1H-1S-2D-?? (2D is art Gf or both majors NON inv)

2H= 3H
2S = 4S under 15
2NT = 3H but 16-17
3C/3D/3H = 3H GF
3S = 16-17 with 4S

Idk why they are not playing the inversion but bidding 1H with both majors look playable if you can solve some of the inv hands.

--------------------------------
----One key idea is that when it goes 1D-1H-1NT (1Nt deny 3 card support unless 3343)
because you denied 3 card support responder got no desire to repeat his major with 5. So instead of 1Nt being 2or3 in partner major you are mostly 1or2, but when you have 1or2 in responder major and rebid 1NT instead of 2m you nearly always have exactly 3 in the unbid major, so responder with 4H5S (no inversion) or 4S/5H (with inversion) can canape safely.----

EX
1D-1H-1NT-2S to play.
1D-1H-1NT-2C-2D-2S INV with 5S/4or5H



If it goes 1D-1H-1S because 1S is art & you have extra bidding sequence available, its convulated but you can get away with it)

EX
1D-1H-1S-2D Instead of being 100% Gf 2D can be both majors non INV at little cost.

------------------------------------------------------------------

[nullve]

I've played the inversion for many years, but for the extra reason that it together with T-Walsh can be used to solve virtually all of Opener's rebid problems after 1m in my NAT-or-BAL 1♣/unBAL 1♦ system.

In short, 1♣-1♦; 1♠(="spades") covers minimum hands with 31(54), 40(54), 4144 or 41(53) while 1♦-1♥; 1♠("hearts") covers minimum hands with 04(54), 13(54), 1444 or 14(53). This means that 2♣ over 1♦-1M, which no longer covers minimum hands with 5m4Om or 4D4C, can now double as a (in my system, 3c) OM raise.

Much the same can be done without the inversion if T-Walsh is replaced with

1♣-?:

1♦ = "4+ S"
...1♥ = replaces 1♠ over 1♣-1♥ in T-Walsh
...1♠ = "hearts"
...1N+ = similar to 1N+ over 1♣-1♥ in T-Walsh
1♥ = "4+ H", but 3- S unless GF
...1♠ = similar to 1♥ over 1♣-1♦ in T-Walsh
...1N+ = similar to 1N+ over 1♣-1♦ in T-Walsh
(...)

so that 1♣-1♦; 1♠(="hearts") can cover minimum hands with 04(54), 13(54), 1444 or 14(53) and 1♦-1♥; 1♠("spades") minimum hands with 31(54), 40(54), 4144 or 41(53).

Of course, the thinking has to be different (and maybe more like yours) if the 1♣ opening is part of some club system or if the 1♦ opening can be balanced.

Regarding the problem (in the non-inversion case) over 1♦-1♥; 1♠-2♣; 2♦: are you sure Responder needs a way to sign off in 2♦ over 1♦-1♥; 1♠? If not, then there's of course no reason why 2♦ should cover all hands with less than 17 hcp.

[benlessard]

Just to make sure i understand.

1D-1H(♠)-??

1S = H or 13(54)
2C = some type a 3 card support for ♠ ?

[PrecisionL]

Reverse Flannery, a lame convention? Meckwell play it and I play it with one partner in a Precision context. Considering playing it in a 1♣ forcing, but usually balanced scheme.
Ben, why should I not use it in ACBL land? Our 1♦ opening is unbalanced with 4+♦ and unbalanced, 10-18 hcp.
Thanks for any insight you can provide.

[benlessard]

IMO rev flannery is a MP convention.

When opener rebid 1NT both methods you dont need rev Flannery. If opener open 1C with 44 in the minors and you play T-Walsh opener will often rebid 1NT with a singleton.

When opener rebid 2m and you hold 5431,5422 5-9 there is no reasons to think that 2M will do better than 2D. Its only when your maximum and 1D-1S-2D(underbid) and you could make 4H otherwise being in 2D is just better.

IMO rev flan is mostly useful when 55(??) and when 5413 especially when opener rebid 2C with 1453 too good for 1NT rebid (12-14) but not good enough to reverse

Using 1D--2H as 4-8 and 1D--1H--2m--2H as 9-11 is just better imo and quite more frequent.

5431 look frequent at 13% but there is 24 permutation so in the end a specific 5431 is only 0.5%.

[nullve]

 benlessard, on 2017-June-05, 22:41, said:

1S = H or 13(54)

Yes. I don't know how to play XYZ over that, though, so instead I used 2♣ as a relay that is GF opposite 4+ H and 2♦ as a multiinvite.

 benlessard, on 2017-June-05, 22:41, said:

2C = some type a 3 card support for ♠ ?

That's one possibility. But one needs a way to handle the minor 2-suiters that "used to" be in 2♣ but haven't made it into 1♠.

In one partnership I play

1♦-1♥; ?:

1♠ = as above (but 10-15 on weird shapes (for a heart-showing rebid) like 0445, 13(54) and 1435; "10-18" otherwise)
1N = limited Gazzilli: a) "10-12", either 2-S5D5C or 2-S3-H6+D b) "16-18", remaining shapes
2♣ = c) "10-15", 3 S d) "13-15", 5D5C (=> 2♦ = INV+ relay; 2♥ = WK, 4S5+H; 2♠ = to play opposite 3 S)
2♦ = "13-15", 2-S3-H6+D (=> 2♥ = WK, 5+ H; 2♠ = "8-10", 6 S; 2N = GF relay)
2♥ = "13-15", 4+ S
2♠ = "10-12", 4+ S
2N+ = "19-21".

(Ranges in scare quotes are pedagogical at best, since I don't want to make a point about hand evaluation.)

[benlessard]

When i play that 1D is 4+ Unb (and 1NT rebid by opener is forcing) I use

1D-1H-1S (both minors) the logic being that ??64,??54,??55,??45 & 1444,0445,0454 are more numerous than D+4S. Also you want some minors hand to be resolved at 2C while D+S hand can be resolve at 2D. This is quite complicated however since we relay the hands however its great and we obliterate our opponents on those hands.

[Zelandakh]

I think I mentioned this the last time the subject came up (I am sure it had an airing on BBF between the linked thread and this one!) but I recall one of the top Italian pairs was using transfers over 1♦ last I checked and might well be worth checking out. Unfortunately I cannot remember which pair.

The other approach that is interesting and shares some similarities is skip-bid responses. Here 1♥ denies 4 hearts, 1♠ shows 4+ hearts and denies 4 spades and 1NT shows both majors with less than GF strength. You can then add 2♣ or 2♦ to cover the GF hands with both majors and you are good to go. The nice part about this idea is that Responder automatically gets a cue bid for their rebid, so issues around 4th suit forcing or the like are sidestepped completely. But of course it is a largely undeveloped structure with the disadvantages that come from that. If it were fully fleshed out, I personally think this approach would be superior to natural though, as it attunes to the idea of making the cheapest response common and more expensive calls showing more detail. Either way, the transfer schemes seem to work best opposite an unbalanced diamond, which is handy given that you have moved in that direction.

[Kungsgeten]

I'm sure that 1D-1H showing spades can lead to nice sequences, but what about 1D-1S showing hearts (but denying spades)? I guess it depends on what you want to be able to show with opener's rebids. Even though 1S denies spades, opener still have to bid something with the 4-1-3-5 hand (and 4-2-2-5, if you include that).

[nullve]

 Kungsgeten, on 2017-June-08, 05:59, said:

I'm sure that 1D-1H showing spades can lead to nice sequences, but what about 1D-1S showing hearts (but denying spades)? I guess it depends on what you want to be able to show with opener's rebids. Even though 1S denies spades, opener still have to bid something with the 4-1-3-5 hand (and 4-2-2-5, if you include that).

4153 and 4252, you mean? Either way,

* with 10-12, 2452 and 10-15, 14(53) I open 1♦, intending to rebid 1♠(=4+ H or 13(54)) over 1♥(4+ S) and support hearts over 1♠(=4+ H);
* with 10-12, 4225 and 10-15, 41(53) I open 1♣, intending to rebid 1♠(=4+ S or 31(54) over 1♦(=4+ H) and support spades over 1♥(=4+ S);
* with 13-15. 2452/4225 I open the minor or 1N ("14-16");
* I treat 10-15, 2425/4252 as BAL and open either 1♣ (with 10-12) or 1N (with 13-15).

In the same partnership I play

1♦-1♠; ?:

1N = limited Gazzilli: a) "10-12", either 2-H5D5C or 2-H6+D b) "16-18"
2♣ = c) "10-15", 3 H d) "13-15", 5D5C (=> 2♦ = INV+ relay; 2♥ = to play opposite 3 H)
2♦ = "13-15", 2-H6+D (=> 2♥ = "8-10", 6 H; 2♠ = GF relay (=> 2N = 4+ S))
2♥ = "10-12", 4+ H
2♠ = "13-15", 4+ H
2N+ = "19-21",

which you can see is very similar to what we play over 1♦-1♥.

[Kungsgeten]

 nullve, on 2017-June-08, 06:59, said:

4153 and 4252, you mean? Either way,

* with 10-12, 2452 and 10-15, 14(53) I open 1♦, intending to rebid 1♠(=4+ H or 13(54)) over 1♥(4+ S) and support hearts over 1♠(=4+ H);
* with 10-12, 4225 and 10-15, 41(53) I open 1♣, intending to rebid 1♠(=4+ S or 31(54) over 1♦(=4+ H) and support spades over 1♥(=4+ S);
* with 13-15. 2452/4225 I open the minor or 1N ("14-16");
* I treat 10-15, 2425/4252 as BAL and open either 1♣ (with 10-12) or 1N (with 13-15).

In the same partnership I play

1♦-1♠; ?:

1N = limited Gazzilli: a) "10-12", either 2-H5D5C or 2-H6+D b) "16-18"
2♣ = c) "10-15", 3 H d) "13-15", 5D5C (=> 2♦ = INV+ relay; 2♥ = to play opposite 3 H)
2♦ = "13-15", 2-H6+D (=> 2♥ = "8-10", 6 H; 2♠ = GF relay (=> 2N = 4+ S))
2♥ = "10-12", 4+ H
2♠ = "13-15", 4+ H
2N+ = "19-21",

which you can see is very similar to what we play over 1♦-1♥.

Yes I meant 4-2-5-2 and 4-1-5-3. It seems like your solution is to open 1C with 4-1-5-3 and treat 4-2-5-2 as balanced. That's a possibility I guess. I guess you open 1C with 4-0-(54) and 4-4-4-1 too? That wouldn't work if playing strong club or similar, and to me it seems a bit strange to do it this way. Also to open 1D with 1-4-3-5 means that you have a 1D opening which is 5+ cards most of the time, but could be three or four if having longer clubs. All this is probably fine, but I'm not convinced that the 1M swap is worth it.

[nullve]

 Kungsgeten, on 2017-June-08, 07:55, said:

I guess you open 1C with 4-0-(54) and 4-4-4-1 too? That wouldn't work if playing strong club or similar, and to me it seems a bit strange to do it this way.

I open 1♣ with 10-15, 40(54), 1♣ with 4S4C(41) and 1♦ with 4H4D(41). So 1♦ promises 5+ D unless 1444 or 10-15, 0445/1435.

No, it won't work in a "club system".

 Kungsgeten, on 2017-June-08, 07:55, said:

Also to open 1D with 1-4-3-5 means that you have a 1D opening which is 5+ cards most of the time, but could be three or four if having longer clubs. All this is probably fine, but I'm not convinced that the 1M swap is worth it.

Are you thinking about the raise structure?

Because Opener will have either 5+ D, 4D4C or 3D5C it's possible to play e.g.

1♦-?:

(...)
2N = bad PRE "raise" with 5+ D or 4D3+C (=> 3♣ = to play opposite 4D3C)
3♣ = good PRE "raise" with 4D3+C (Opener can pass with 5 C)
3♦ = good PRE raise with 5+ D
(...).

[benlessard]

From a follow up point of view 1D-1S (H denying !S) can never be worse than 1D-1S (♠ may have ♥).

Whatever problem you have after 1D-1S(♥) they will be the same with suit switch.

So the problematic 4153 is now 1453 after 1D-1S in standard.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the inversion is more likely to work over a standard 1D opening, once you play a 4+ unbalanced 1D opening you have 1H relay that is probably a superior method.

----------------
Anyway the way is see the inversion is simple.

1D-1H-??

1NT and higher bids all deny 3S/4H (unless 3343 for 1Nt) this is a huge plus. You can even rebid 2NT with a singleton spades. Like a 2Nt rebid can now be 18-19 bal 2344 & a 1363 16 pts (unsuitable for 3D).

55 hands responder will be able to show the 5H by a rebid 2H (NF) 2C-2D-2H (inv) unless the bidding go 1D-1H-2C with tend to deny 3H anyway unless 0355.

54 hands are never a problem since you know if you have a fit or not with certainty in both majors at the same time (unless 3343/54??) and you can stop in 1NT.

45 hands sometimes miss when opener is 3352/3361 and responder is 45?? weakish.

64 46 always do way better with the inversion. since you will NEVER miss the side 4-4 fit.

Earlier this week Ive bid about 300 hands of 1D opener and not once we missed a 4-4 fit & we never played 3M since with XYZ you can inv and stop in 2M.

The only problem hands ive saw is when opener is 15-17 with 1354 and it goes 1D-1H-?? you are too good for 1NT and if you rebid 2C responder with 5503 or 4513 will pass. This is the case where you also have problem in stand & where rev flannery is useful.

When opener is 3253/3352 and responder is 44?? you are forced to play 2S instead of 1NT.

[benlessard]

Another way to see it is that

1D-1H-1S-??

2C & 2D as art and forcing XYZ style are very good bids since they are multiplier of sequences and fairly easy to use, so its make sense to make the 1D-1H-1S start more frequent.

Probably also available is to open 1C when ??44 so that way 1D-1H-1NT always show 5D+3H unless 3343 or 2254 with pts in ♥.

[Kungsgeten]

 benlessard, on 2017-June-08, 11:00, said:

From a follow up point of view 1D-1S (H denying !S) can never be worse than 1D-1S (♠ may have ♥).

Whatever problem you have after 1D-1S(♥) they will be the same with suit switch.

So the problematic 4153 is now 1453 after 1D-1S in standard.

Yes in a standard structure I guess that is true. Opener will have to choose between 1NT, 2D and 2H with that hand (depending on strength). Nullve was talking about an unbalanced diamond structure, and then I believe it is different since 1NT can be used for artificial purposes. You then get at least two ways to raise spades without passing 2S, and you can also show hearts without passing 2D. With the inversion it is trickier, since the "safety level" is 2H; one step lower. If you do not want to play nullve's method of opening some problematic shapes with 1C, you could do:

1D (unbal) - 1S (hearts);
1NT = Clubs
2C = 6+D
2D = 4S NF
2H = Heart raise
2S = Reverse

But then you only get one way to raise hearts. Another way would be to have a bid which is either 6+D or 4-1-5-3, or pretend that you have 4 clubs with that shape. If 4-2-5-2 is possible you probably do not want to pretend you have clubs though.

[Kungsgeten]

 benlessard, on 2017-June-08, 11:00, said:

I think the inversion is more likely to work over a standard 1D opening, once you play a 4+ unbalanced 1D opening you have 1H relay that is probably a superior method.

We used to play a modified version of your Chapi Club 1D structure, it is nice. After 1D-1H (natural or GF relay) there were some problems with 4441 hands where you missed the spade suit, and sometimes opener weren't able to show three card support for hearts. Fourth hand interference usually worked fine, since opener just bid as if responder held hearts. We now play 2C as GF relay and 1H as natural. This is worse when relaying, but better when holding hearts. One thing I really liked about the 1H relay was finding out opener's strength at a low level.

[Zelandakh]

 Kungsgeten, on 2017-June-09, 00:45, said:

We used to play a modified version of your Chapi Club 1D structure, it is nice. After 1D-1H (natural or GF relay) there were some problems with 4441 hands where you missed the spade suit, and sometimes opener weren't able to show three card support for hearts. Fourth hand interference usually worked fine, since opener just bid as if responder held hearts. We now play 2C as GF relay and 1H as natural. This is worse when relaying, but better when holding hearts. One thing I really liked about the 1H relay was finding out opener's strength at a low level.

To get around this, you can consider my relay structure:-

1♦ (4+ diamonds, unbalanced)
==
1♥ = INV+ relay
... - 1♠ = min, <4 spades unless 4441/4450
... - ... - 1NT = GF relay
... - ... - others = nat, INV
... - 1NT = 4 spades, <4 hearts
... - 2♣+ = GF, <4 spades unless 4441/4450
1♠ = weak, 4+ spades
1NT = weak, 4+ hearts
2♣ = weak, 5+ clubs
2♦ = weak raise

You find out about Opener's strength at a low level, gain an extra step on your GF relay auctions and put a lot more pressure on 4th hand when they are holding the cards. Against that your invitational hands are more cramped and 4441 opposite a weak 3325 becomes a problem hand.

[benlessard]

Quote

After 1D-1H (natural or GF relay) there were some problems with 4441 hands where you missed the spade suit, and sometimes opener weren't able to show three card support for hearts.

We did some tweaking for the (4441) with 4D & for the 13(54) hands we now often rebid a delayed 2H natural.

1444 is D+C+H

1D-1H-1S-1NT-2H (1444,0454,0445 11-16)

1D-1H-1S-2C-??

here responder is weak and prefer clubs, however when he is weak (non invitationnal) and got only one minor his H are always real so we use

2D = to play 2H (0444 +1) or 1354 or GF with longer clubs than diamonds.
2H= 18+ low shortness ♦>=♣
2S = 18+ 2254
2NT 18 + 1354
3C = 18+ 1255
etc..

1D-1H-1S-2D-??
here we keep 2H natural, we found out that relaying early wasnt that useful since when responder is non invitionnal there is no slams.


4144 we just show D+S and hide the clubs.

2C if 11-14 or GF
2D if 15-17

4441 11-14 here we show the S.

1D-1H-2C-2D-??

2H = natural weakish 4441,4351
2S = 18+ low short
2NT = 18 + 4252
etc..

4441 15-17 here we raise H directly

1D-1H-2H (4H 15-17)
again if responder is non invitationnal he should have real H unless 4333. 4324,4225 are hand where its better to bid 1S (NF). 4234 we did 1S or we raise D.

Honestly if you play unbalanced D and you have a good memory and steady partnership no natural system will even come close. Its a bit like Moscito responses after 1D(♥)-1H except that 4M+5m arent possible so you are in a better shape even if the range is wider.