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Fourth Suit Forcing Responder's priorities

#21 User is offline   JLilly 

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Posted 2017-May-01, 16:13

Quote

4) 3♣ showing 5-5 shape


On #4, would it be different if the partnership opens 1 with 4=5 in =? I imagine not, since 3 would more useful to deny 5 clubs, and it removes 3 as a bid by responder to avoid rebidding their majors. So it could show 4=5 shape but the implications are the same. Thanks.
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#22 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-May-01, 16:15

View Postrmnka447, on 2017-May-01, 13:19, said:

I'm not sure I agreed with everything Felicity said, but the rebids were spot on. Otherwise, it would have been a simple "+1 for FelicityR".


But still not enough to actually award the reputation instead of just saying it?
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#23 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2017-May-05, 03:55

The normal uk/us approach is that 2 spades on hand 1 shows a suitable doubleton because with 3 spades and an unbalanced minimum (the given hand type) you raise spades immediately. With 3514 and a hand too strong to raise to 2s you rebid 2c and jump to 3s next.

Wrt Robson you have to very careful. He pitches his stuff at a very low level. In his bridge club for example there are no stop cards and, I think (I've never been there myself), no alerts or announcements as you get in real bridge tournaments. Similarly he teaches that reverses don't show extras. This is hopeless from a theoretical viewpoint but, no doubt, good from his because it gets the punters playing (and paying).
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#24 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-May-05, 06:44

View PostLiversidge, on 2017-April-29, 01:09, said:

1. Bid responder's suit with 3 card support, or, if not...
2. Bid his own second suit with 5 cards, or, if not...
3. Bid his first suit with 6 cards, or, if not....
4. Bid No Trumps with a stopper in the bid suit, or, if not...

If none of the above you have to find a bid so..

5. Bid responder's suit with a good doubleton, or
6. Bid own first suit with a good 5 card suit.

How about this one?



Or this?


I think general rules such as those from AR fall down if not taken into the context of how expensive each call is. 2NT over a 4SF 2 is quite different from 2NT over 2. The issue is complicated further if invitational hands are included as now we need not only buckets for minimum hands but also a way to show GF values in place of any non-forcing calls. That in turn leads to space-consuming bids being required on occasion, which is probably the main driving force behind the switch to exclusing the invitational hands here.
(-: Zel :-)
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#25 User is offline   Liversidge 

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Posted 2017-May-06, 01:34

View Postwank, on 2017-May-05, 03:55, said:


Wrt Robson you have to very careful. He pitches his stuff at a very low level. In his bridge club ...... he teaches that reverses don't show extras. This is hopeless from a theoretical viewpoint but, no doubt, good from his because it gets the punters playing (and paying).

Don't know what he teaches at his club but his club website has sections ranging from "beginner" to "experienced" and in his book "Common Mistakes and How to Avoid Them" he gives an example of a reverse and writes "a good 15 points should be held".
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#26 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2018-January-14, 07:21

About 4th Suit Forcing(=FSF) priorities and useing consitions i've found these two YouTube videos :
1) https://youtu.be/w5r6FRePCyc
2) https://youtu.be/zmzPRbs0wrc
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#27 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2018-January-15, 06:51

View PostLiversidge, on 2017-April-30, 03:04, said:

Marlowe has given one reason for having an agreement where FSF is always game forcing (except for the example you give) even if bid at the 2 level. I'd like to know if there are other reasons.

The main reason for playing 4sfg is that whenever either partner has a queen more than he had already promised, he can just make his normal bid without worrying if partner passes him in a partscore. Pairs who play 4sf not gf will sometimes have to jump to avoid that but you'd prefer jumps to be very specific, not just a queen extra
You might speculate on the psychopathology of some posters but hating them seems excessive --- Nige1
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