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Web version collecting reclamations

#1 User is offline   Ovis 

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Posted 2017-April-18, 03:08

It has been discussed a lot about stopping the old Windows Version substituting it by an unfinished, slow and clumsy new web version, that was forced upon all BBO Players. As for my opinion (still unquestioned) this happened to allow the access of advertising robots powered by Flash plugin.

Now whe have the ridiculous situation, that we are expelled way more often than before by a bad connection and server overload and when it runs stable we have blinking adds disturbing concentration, which most frequently praises womens lingerie!

How can we get a site dedicated only to Bridge again?
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#2 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2017-April-18, 04:40

I don't see how you conclude that your opinion is "still unquestioned". My reading of your recent posts is that they add no new points to ones that you have repeated on a few occasions over the last few months, of which the earlier postings were I see "questioned".

It may be true that your later repetitions have been largely ignored, but Barmar responded to these points when originally aired in http://tinyurl.com/k4qclaz and subsequent posts in that thread.

While you are at liberty not to accept his replies, it would be incorrect to conclude that your opinion is "unquestioned", just as it would be incorrect to draw that conclusion from a lack of response to your later repetitions. It could simply be that no-one can be bothered to issue repeated rebuttals that add nothing to earlier rebuttals to identical points.

Incidentally, I expect you to accept that BBO requires a source of finance to continue its operations, whatever platform is provided. The obvious sources are advertising or direct subscription. In the latter case at a cost of just US$0.25 per week you can do away with the advertising. As well as being perhaps a desirable end in itself, the act of suppressing the transmission of advertising may well have a beneficial impact on the other performance-related grievances that you hold (I am only speculating on that).
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#3 User is offline   Ovis 

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Posted 2017-April-21, 09:36

View Post1eyedjack, on 2017-April-18, 04:40, said:

I don't see how you conclude that your opinion is "still unquestioned". My reading of your recent posts is that they add no new points to ones that you have repeated on a few occasions over the last few months, of which the earlier postings were I see "questioned".

It may be true that your later repetitions have been largely ignored, but Barmar responded to these points when originally aired in http://tinyurl.com/k4qclaz and subsequent posts in that thread.

While you are at liberty not to accept his replies, it would be incorrect to conclude that your opinion is "unquestioned", just as it would be incorrect to draw that conclusion from a lack of response to your later repetitions. It could simply be that no-one can be bothered to issue repeated rebuttals that add nothing to earlier rebuttals to identical points.

Incidentally, I expect you to accept that BBO requires a source of finance to continue its operations, whatever platform is provided. The obvious sources are advertising or direct subscription. In the latter case at a cost of just US$0.25 per week you can do away with the advertising. As well as being perhaps a desirable end in itself, the act of suppressing the transmission of advertising may well have a beneficial impact on the other performance-related grievances that you hold (I am only speculating on that).


Well, that's fiddling a new melody here! On my early complaints (not the only one!) nobody stated that the ads were vital for BBOs maintenance. Instead we were told that the problems were due to our own configurations, that web version is much better than the old one, that it was too much of a problem to manage 2 versions at the same time etc.

As for stability, the blinking ads (Flash crap) are a nuisance to every player because web access becomes unstable and crashes. How boring for anyone who wants to play more than 3 Hands with the same people!

Short: Establishing a new platform has degraded play on BBO because technical problems are unsolved!

I hope you find a way to fix it and that we will be informed about it, with no fake excuses. :-)
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#4 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2017-April-21, 12:09

View PostOvis, on 2017-April-21, 09:36, said:

I hope you find a way to fix it

If by "you" you mean me, that ain't gonna happen. Unless I get my job application in (and it is viewed favourably) :)

BTW not that it means anything, but I personally have not encountered much in the way of connection issues, nor (generally, with a few exceptions) have others at tables where I have been present. At least no more than my recollection of the problems formerly encountered with the Windows download. That said, I don't get any adverts. Whether those two matters are causally connected I can only speculate.

I have no idea whether the adverts contribute to disconnections. It was you who expressed that concern, and I merely pointed out that the concern, whether valid or not, can be put to bed by eliminating the adverts at a trivial cost (and with potentially additional benefits).

It would be quite nice if BBO kept some statistics on whether disconnections are disproportionately prevalent among those who volunteer to receive adverts through their interface.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#5 User is offline   Ovis 

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Posted 2017-April-25, 01:23

View Post1eyedjack, on 2017-April-21, 12:09, said:

If by "you" you mean me, that ain't gonna happen. Unless I get my job application in (and it is viewed favourably) :)

BTW not that it means anything, but I personally have not encountered much in the way of connection issues, nor (generally, with a few exceptions) have others at tables where I have been present. At least no more than my recollection of the problems formerly encountered with the Windows download. That said, I don't get any adverts. Whether those two matters are causally connected I can only speculate.

I have no idea whether the adverts contribute to disconnections. It was you who expressed that concern, and I merely pointed out that the concern, whether valid or not, can be put to bed by eliminating the adverts at a trivial cost (and with potentially additional benefits).

It would be quite nice if BBO kept some statistics on whether disconnections are disproportionately prevalent among those who volunteer to receive adverts through their interface.


Pausing because BBO not only threw me out in the middle of a game but is unavailable since! I have no problem with advertising but a problem with lack of honest information. To pamper the platform with blinking ads, the administrators chose to rely on Flash technology. Everybody knows that this is not only insecure and an open door for hackers but also that its main goal is to track the user, leading to more advertising, spam and what else nuisances on the web there are.

So it was decided to rely on the worst sh... of a software plugin, putting at risk the enthusiasm of players. Besides the communications and affirmations expressed (you can read them) were, that everything would be better than before, that the reason for change was merely downsizing the maintenance effort and so on. When problems were stated by many players the suggestion answered were that they should care for their system.

End of discussion. As many BBO fans, who are not writing their opinion here, I feel frustrated and take the liberty to criticize what happened!
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#6 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-April-25, 08:35

View PostOvis, on 2017-April-25, 01:23, said:

So it was decided to rely on the worst sh... of a software plugin, putting at risk the enthusiasm of players.

The decision to use Flash was made over a decade ago. At the time, the choice was between Flash and Java -- HTML+Javascript was not capable of meeting the needs at that time. The decision turned out to be right, as Java has a far worse reputation than Flash.

I don't think advertising had much to do with the decision. The old version also has ads, and it wasn't until a couple of years ago that we started using outside ad networks in the web version.

#7 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2017-April-25, 13:07

View PostOvis, on 2017-April-25, 01:23, said:

End of discussion.
It seems not. Much as you might wish it, that is not your call.

I have a theory that those who insist on the last word and in so doing unilaterally claim the right to curtail further debate thereby concede defeat.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#8 User is offline   Ovis 

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Posted 2017-April-26, 10:06

View Postbarmar, on 2017-April-25, 08:35, said:

The decision to use Flash was made over a decade ago. At the time, the choice was between Flash and Java -- HTML+Javascript was not capable of meeting the needs at that time. The decision turned out to be right, as Java has a far worse reputation than Flash.

I don't think advertising had much to do with the decision. The old version also has ads, and it wasn't until a couple of years ago that we started using outside ad networks in the web version.


If you share the opinion that as well Flash as Java are not the utmost solution, why not leave good old Windows version for quite some time?

The old version had very discreet and unobtrusive ads. The new one now is open to any tracking tool in the global web and pulls the ads from focussed servers that adequate to your geographic region. It is more, increased blinking and invited by the bad browser Internet Explorer and Flash to spy on you wiht the help of cookies etc. If you try to stop it or to switch tracking off: forget using BBO because your Connection crashes all the time.
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#9 User is offline   Ovis 

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Posted 2017-April-26, 10:15

View Post1eyedjack, on 2017-April-25, 13:07, said:

It seems not. Much as you might wish it, that is not your call.

I have a theory that those who insist on the last word and in so doing unilaterally claim the right to curtail further debate thereby concede defeat.


OK. Welcome to the skills of Saturday evenings rhetorics course for housewifes...

I dont want to have last word nor came here to fight. I just wanted to offer my views about this matter, that bothers me and many others on BBO. As I get no better arguments to explain it, instead of diverting excuses, I may as well stop discussion.

Feel free to write whatever you want, to be sure you had last word.
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#10 User is offline   fredgribbl 

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Posted 2017-April-29, 13:55

I am glad to see that I am not the only one to have problems with the Web based version of BBO.

My father is 97 and was, until he was forced to use the web based version an avid player. The reason? He is blind in one eye and has limited vision in the other eye. I also have less severe sight problems and find the web version very difficult to use.

I live in France and my father lives in England so next week I am going to see him to see if I can sort out the old version for him. It still works fine on my Windows 7 computer so I am sure I can sort it out. BUT if BBO insist on turning off the old version, then there will be several users I know forced to stop playing.

I fully understand that a web based version opens up BBO's market to Apple and Linux users and that is good for them. BUT the old version still works for many people so why turn it off?

Has anyone emailed support@bridgebase.com to let them know their views and if so, what has the response been?
Since there does not seem to be an option on this forum to start a poll, I have added one, you'll find it HERE please do go and if you want to retain the old version, simply click the radio button.

Fredgribbl
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#11 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-April-29, 14:34

View Postfredgribbl, on 2017-April-29, 13:55, said:

I am glad to see that I am not the only one to have problems with the Web based version of BBO.

My father is 97 and was, until he was forced to use the web based version an avid player. The reason? He is blind in one eye and has limited vision in the other eye. I also have less severe sight problems and find the web version very difficult to use.

We're still enabling the old version for people who have special needs, and eyesight problems should be a good reason. Have you written to support asking for it to be enabled for you and your father?

Quote

Since there does not seem to be an option on this forum to start a poll,

Yes there is. If you start a new thread, you can click on "Manage Topic Poll" and create a poll.

But the old version is going away eventually, no poll is going to change that.

#12 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2017-April-30, 00:11

View Postfredgribbl, on 2017-April-29, 13:55, said:

I also have less severe sight problems and find the web version very difficult to use.

I expect that you are already aware of these and have tried them, but just in case ...

1) you can personalise the size of text in chat windows

2) you can personalise the size of playing cards (and for that matter anything displayed in a pane) by adjusting the pane dimensions, by dragging the dividers between panes. Obviously something has to give in the process, as the overall window size is limited by your screen size. But there may be priorities that you can personalise within that context (and some panes can be hidden altogether).

3) if not already tried, you might try displaying the cards in diagram mode rather than as pictures of cards. For the partially sighted I would expect the less surplus clutter on screen the better. If not tried before this takes some getting used to, and I suggest giving it a good long trial so that you do not dismiss it purely on grounds of unfamiliarity.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#13 User is offline   Ovis 

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Posted 2017-April-30, 07:59

View Post1eyedjack, on 2017-April-30, 00:11, said:

I expect that you are already aware of these and have tried them, but just in case ...

1) you can personalise the size of text in chat windows

2) you can personalise the size of playing cards (and for that matter anything displayed in a pane) by adjusting the pane dimensions, by dragging the dividers between panes. Obviously something has to give in the process, as the overall window size is limited by your screen size. But there may be priorities that you can personalise within that context (and some panes can be hidden altogether).

3) if not already tried, you might try displaying the cards in diagram mode rather than as pictures of cards. For the partially sighted I would expect the less surplus clutter on screen the better. If not tried before this takes some getting used to, and I suggest giving it a good long trial so that you do not dismiss it purely on grounds of unfamiliarity.


As for me I have no problems related to playing the web version. I knew it long before it was mandatory to use it. Nevertheless I conludet it was clumsy and slow and did stick to the old version. Now I feel very unhappy not so because of the transfer to one only version. Could easily cope with that.

The worst thing is that the new version was opened to intrusive advertising rolling over the left side. This is not advertisers who deal with BBO but robots who spy on you and send you the ads some algorithms think are right for you after having analyzed your system.

As my browser shows what is happening in the background, I can see the tracking and intuding going on. Worst is Amazon. As soon as the ad appears you get nothing less than eight plugin modules trying to check you up.

And I feel outraged not only because the reaction is: get used to it. But as well because of the stubborn denying that this nuisance for players is a strategy. How unconspicuous they think we are?
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#14 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2017-April-30, 08:21

I was just trying to help a specific individual with a specific problem which (as far as I am aware) may have nothing to do with advertising. The entire exchange would have been better in another thread.

As for advertising, I have previously suggested that at a trivial cost of $0.25 per week you can do away with advertising altogether.

I get that you might have a preference for the Windows download version plus advertising that comes with that, as being preferable to both the advertising that comes with the flash version and the $0.25 pw option. I also get that you have other issues with the web interface than just the advertising.

That said, just sticking with the advertising objection for now, the measure of the irritation that you suffer through the flash version advertising cannot be valued at more than $0.25 per week, as that is the real cost that you would have to incur, no more, to do away with it. I find it hard to square that trivial cost with the vehemence with which you attack the flash advertising and yet voluntarily stick with it.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#15 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-April-30, 16:12

View PostOvis, on 2017-April-30, 07:59, said:

The worst thing is that the new version was opened to intrusive advertising rolling over the left side. This is not advertisers who deal with BBO but robots who spy on you and send you the ads some algorithms think are right for you after having analyzed your system.

Our advertising is basically the same as the ads used by practically every site on the Internet. Why are you repeatedly demonizing us?

#16 User is offline   Ovis 

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Posted 2017-May-24, 03:40

View Postbarmar, on 2017-April-30, 16:12, said:

Our advertising is basically the same as the ads used by practically every site on the Internet. Why are you repeatedly demonizing us?

I am not demonizing no one. My critical points relate to:

- choosing that Flash crap with all its DANGEROUS backholes for getting access to rolling ad servers with tracking modules
- the premature cancelation of the old windows version, with which everybody felt satisfied
- the unrespectful and untruth affirmation it has been done UNIQUELY because there was no other technical alternative

All this can be confirmed by reading the threads where I posted!

So please take a honest attitude and name it to all users.
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#17 User is offline   humboldt2 

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Posted 2017-May-27, 15:47

I would love to have the option of paying 0.25/week in order to get rid of the advertising.
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#18 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-May-29, 14:50

View Posthumboldt2, on 2017-May-27, 15:47, said:

I would love to have the option of paying 0.25/week in order to get rid of the advertising.

Play one robot tourney every week.

If you don't like playing against the robots, start the tourney and then withdraw.

#19 User is offline   tsankaR 

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Posted 2017-June-22, 09:23

How to chat to tournaments before and after the tourney? it is possible in downloaded version
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