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What action to take with 4-5 majors

#1 User is offline   phoenix214 

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Posted 2017-March-20, 08:48

There are mutiple ways, how to bid a hand with 9 cards in majors over a 1 of a minor opening, you can overcall, dbl or try a light michaels.
So here is hand that came up, and the question is what would be you prefered action: Favorable in imps versus good opponents: RHO opens 1 which is 4+ and natural and you hold:
:AQ32
:A9743
:6
:J65

And as a follow up question: What is our plan if LHO raises diamonds to 2 and 3 and it gets passed around to us?
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#2 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2017-March-20, 09:02

1 followed by DBL.
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#3 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2017-March-20, 09:18

i double with minimums (less than 13 or 14ish) and bid the 5 then double with modest extras (13 or 14ish+)
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#4 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-March-23, 12:13

If you double an then bid later on, you're advertising a STRONG overcall. If you bid , you may lose a fit. But if it's passed around to you at fairly low level, you have the option to make a reopening double. If you double, you might lose a heart fit.

My gut reaction was to double, but the more I think about it, I think 1 is right. It allows partner more options depending on your bidding agreements over overcalls. If partner forces with a cue, you can bid 2 to show an opening hand. If partner somehow finds a bid, you really like your hand and will Take some raising action whether the new suit bid is NF, Constructive NF, or Forcing.

If 2 (weak) raise is passed back, I'll make the reopening double, but would probably pass 3 back to me.
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#5 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2017-March-23, 18:43

View Postrmnka447, on 2017-March-23, 12:13, said:

If you double an then bid later on, you're advertising a STRONG overcall.


Exactly why I prefer a 1 overcall so I can usually take further action. If I double I might as well fold my cards and put them in my pocket. That said, after 3 passed back to me I'm out if it's limit otherwise I'm doubling.
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#6 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-March-24, 03:58

View Postphoenix214, on 2017-March-20, 08:48, said:

There are mutiple ways, how to bid a hand with 9 cards in majors over a 1 of a minor opening, you can overcall, dbl or try a light michaels.
So here is hand that came up, and the question is what would be you prefered action: Favorable in imps versus good opponents: RHO opens 1 which is 4+ and natural and you hold:
:AQ32
:A9743
:6
:J65

Standard bidders sometimes lose a 4-4 S fit after

(1)-1-(P)-1N

because Advancer thinks/fears that a 1 advance would promise 5+ S; or a 5-3 H fit after

(1)-X-(P)-1N,

because a 2 rebid would not show a Flannery-type hand, but be strong.

I don't know what's best of X and 1 when playing with a pick-up partner, but in my regular partnerships I've always made sure that

(1m)-1R-(P)-1M = 4+ M, F1,

partly in order to solve problems like this. So with those partners: 1.

View Postphoenix214, on 2017-March-20, 08:48, said:

And as a follow up question: What is our plan if LHO raises diamonds to 2 and 3 and it gets passed around to us?

X (takeout)
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#7 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2017-March-24, 06:16

The heart suit is nothing to write home about. With this particular collection I prefer x. Change the HCP around some Axxx AQJxx x xxx and 1h suddenly looks a ton better since it provides not only a decent landing spot but a good lead director.
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#8 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2017-March-24, 10:07

View Postgszes, on 2017-March-24, 06:16, said:

The heart suit is nothing to write home about. With this particular collection I prefer x. Change the HCP around some Axxx AQJxx x xxx and 1h suddenly looks a ton better since it provides not only a decent landing spot but a good lead director.


I agree with you although the others make good arguments for 1.
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#9 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2017-March-27, 09:06

View Postneilkaz, on 2017-March-24, 10:07, said:

I agree with you although the others make good arguments for 1.

But do you really want partner to give a false preference to 3 when he has some junk with two hearts?

That is the reason why I would double:
- If we can make game because partner has three card heart support, he will be so strong that he will come to life and force me to suggest hearts.
- If we can make game because of our fit in the major, partner will be able to judge the situation immediately because I have shown both majors.
- But if we can't make game, I certainly don't want to force partner beyond the 1 level.

This hand is worth only one action, either double or overcall, and -to my taste- the double is more descriptive, for the reasons above. For an overcall, followed by a double, I need a slightly better hand and suit. (And for a double followed by an overcall, I need a lot more.)

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#10 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2017-March-27, 09:57

View Postggwhiz, on 2017-March-23, 18:43, said:

Exactly why I prefer a 1 overcall so I can usually take further action. If I double I might as well fold my cards and put them in my pocket.

I agree with all the above reasoning and come to the opposite conclusion. I don't have enough goods to take further action, even after a simple weak single raise comes back to me. So, I double and fold my cards, putting them into my pocket -- having shown somewhere around opening strength with support for the other 3 suits.

Trinidad was more eloquent in this view.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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