# BBO Discussion Forums: Forcing or non-forcing? - BBO Discussion Forums

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## Forcing or non-forcing?

### #1OleBerg

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Posted 2017-March-18, 08:35

(2) - 2 - (Pass) - 3
(Pass) - 3 - (Pass) -4?

(2) - 2 - (Pass) - 3
(Pass) - 3 - (Pass) -4?

Edit: 2 is a weak two.
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Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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### #2Vampyr

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Posted 2017-March-18, 08:45

What is 2?
London, England
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### #3Fluffy

• World International Master without a clue
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Posted 2017-March-18, 14:30

I'd say forcing, for the small target rule on first (you can pass 3), and because I think 3 should be GF on second, but I don't recall having this bidding before, I would try to avoid it since I am sure it will be undiscussed.
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### #4benlessard

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Posted 2017-March-18, 16:46

First one is NF, advancer can bid 4D as a COG. In std 3 & 3 are both not GF, so even in 4 NF is a small target I dont see wich rule would make advancer repeating his suit to suddenly become GF.

2nd one is GF since 3S is a high reverse, its probably showing 46, many 45?? with some extras would start with a X of 2D.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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### #5helene_t

• The Abbess
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Posted 2017-March-18, 16:58

If you have the rule that 4m is "always" forcing then it should apply here but without discussion I would take the first as nonforcing. The second should be forcing as opener has shown extras.
I think the notion of captaincy (and all other intentional language used to describe bidding, for that matter) is ultimately dispensable. --- nullve
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### #6lycier

• AlphaBridge
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Posted 2017-March-19, 05:14

OleBerg, on 2017-March-18, 08:35, said:

(2) - 2 - (Pass) - 3
(Pass) - 3 - (Pass) -4?

(2) - 2 - (Pass) - 3
(Pass) - 3 - (Pass) -4?

Edit: 2 is a weak two.

Sorry， I'm not a expert.
But I think two problems depend on your bidding system on agreement in fact. Now I'd better take two classic examples with similar auctions to show its principle clearly.

First example

If you think this 3 is NF, first one is NF.
If you think this 3 is forcing, first one is forcing.

Second example

If you think this 3 is NF, second one is NF.
If you think this 3 is forcing, second one is forcing.

What else?
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### #7mycroft

• Secretary Bird
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Posted 2017-March-20, 08:13

Clearly, in both cases, it's forcing, and overcaller will show Aces for a possible slam (which they won't have enough of, of course).

More Advanced Players will show 1430 keycard for hearts (in the first)/spades (in the second), which will get them to the 5 level (down 1, more often than not).

Spoiler

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