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Escape from weak 1NT doubled

#81 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2017-July-29, 04:47

View PostWackojack, on 2017-March-19, 12:29, said:

I think alert 2C and if asked say "happy to play in 2C undoubled". It could have been David Gold (or was it Townsend his partner) who gave this explanation at the table when I asked a few years ago.


Didn't see this before the thread was bumped up.i like it.
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#82 User is offline   dokoko 

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Posted 2017-July-30, 09:04

View PostLiversidge, on 2017-March-12, 01:36, said:

Which system do you advise for NB partnerships?
An ex partner taught me to play Exit Transfers but it is quite complicated, using 4 suit transfers (including XX for clubs) to rightside the No Trump bidder if partner has a 5+ card suit, and having to remember the different approaches when doubled by RHO or LHO.
I have had a quick look at DONT and it seems simpler (same method for LHO or RHO double) but from what I can see it does not rightside opener unless partner's 5 card suit is clubs, and it doesn't allow a redouble to be left in for penalties by responder. Not sure how important these are when weighed against simplicity.


Actually I don't quite understand why a novice should bother about an escape system from 1NT doubled. IMO you should just play naturally (run into a long suit otherwise stay); LHO might also have a problem with 1NT doubled.

Against strong opposition you will remain underdog even with expert tools and against players of your level you may as well let playing skills decide. Work on those!

An escape system is good to get used to weak 43-Fits, but not really needed for better results. And if playing a weak NT doubled scares you, it would make sense IMO to switch to the strong NT. (I have played the weak NT for years without a conventional escape method - now I have one for the strong NT for playing on expert level).

That said, you may well choose one of the structures proposed here. But don't think new conventions make you a better player.
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#83 User is offline   Liversidge 

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Posted 2017-July-31, 04:36

View Posteagles123, on 2017-March-13, 06:27, said:

imo any method that doesnt allow you to play 1Nx is truly terrible, other than that it doesn't really matter :)


I have learned a lot from all the responses and partner and I have now settled on DONT, which we like - it is simple. "Redouble" says I have a 5+ card suit, "pass" accepts the double, and bidding a suit starts a scramble. And if the double comes from 4th seat opener bids a 5 card suit if he has one or passes. In the latter case partner carries on as above. So far it has worked every time, usually opps bid. I am sure it has it's weaknesses like all wriggles but it's better than nothing IMHO.
I have stopped fretting about the strong hand being on the table. As has been pointed out, this is more relevant when playing the strong NT.
As for switching to the strong no trump - it seems rather a drastic solution to this problem. Playing Acol in the UK, all our sources (books, websites, EBU system guide etc.) centre on the weak no trump.
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#84 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-July-31, 07:17

View Postgordontd, on 2017-July-29, 01:27, said:

Maybe this is a geographical thing - I've never heard of it. On the other hand I wouldn't have expected there to be much experience of dealing with penalty doubles of weak NTs in ACBL-land.

On the contrary in ACBL the people playing weak 1N have experience playing over a penalty double. However, the opponents usually don't have much experience making penalty doubles and dealing with escapes.

I understand this is different elsewhere especially UK and some Commonwealth countries.


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#85 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2017-August-01, 21:15

One problem with agreeing to play artificial methods is that you need to discuss exactly which situations they apply to. For example, consider
1NT-p-p-x
2

and

1NT-p-p-x
p-p-2


You have agreeed that 2 by responder after a direct-seat double would be transfer to diamonds (or showing clubs and another suit, or whatever) but what about 2 by either partner after a balancing seat double? What if they double a 1NT rebid or a 1NT overcall?

If you have agreed to play 2 as "to play" over a direct-seat double, then there will be no doubt about the other situations. 2 will always be to play.
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#86 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2017-August-02, 01:36

View Posthelene_t, on 2017-August-01, 21:15, said:

One problem with agreeing to play artificial methods is that you need to discuss exactly which situations they apply to.


This is of course true.

It is also true that opponents need to discuss their continuations after your artificial escape. Is a double for penalties or take-out? And subsequent doubles? Are passes forcing? What does it mean to bid your anchor suit? What does a 2NT bid mean? Even seasoned partnerships can have mis-understandings.
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