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What would you do ... & avoid the wrath of partner.

Poll: Bid and opening lead questions (33 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your bid choice?

  1. Pass (21 votes [63.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.64%

  2. Double (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 4 Clubs (11 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  4. Other (1 votes [3.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.03%

If you pass or double, what is your opening lead?

  1. Club (15 votes [45.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.45%

  2. Diamond (6 votes [18.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.18%

  3. Heart (9 votes [27.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.27%

  4. Spade (3 votes [9.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

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#21 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2017-February-26, 17:33

A diamond lead could work and obviously if partner meant 3 as invitational it would be logical to bid 5. Other than that, pass and lead A looks fairly clear.
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#22 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2017-February-26, 17:41

View PostKaitlyn S, on 2017-February-25, 10:25, said:

your partner castigating you likely cost your side many more than that as you were at least subconsciously thinking about that board rather than the one you were actually playing, and he/she gets the charge for any errors you made later in the event.

This is very good advice if you play with the same partner the whole evening (or even multiple evenings).

However, this is a indy so the advisable strategy is only to be nice to partners who you perceive as being either much stronger or weaker than yourselves. Partners who are approximately at your own level you should terrorize psychologically after the round. Turn all rank-competitors into wrecks and you will likely go up a position or two on the ladder.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#23 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2017-February-26, 18:02

View Posthelene_t, on 2017-February-26, 17:41, said:

However, this is a indy so the advisable strategy is only to be nice to partners who you perceive as being either much stronger or weaker than yourselves. Partners who are approximately at your own level you should terrorize psychologically after the round. Turn all rank-competitors into wrecks and you will likely go up a position or two on the ladder.


https://www.youtube....h?v=qpOnwt76oxI

:)
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#24 User is offline   IGoHomeNow 

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Posted 2017-February-26, 22:47

3C instead of 2C?
ONLY if BBo defines 3C as less then a limit raise. But if that is the case, then what does BBO define 2C to be. I expect BBO defines 3C as a limit raise and 2C as vanilla since I've never heard of anyone playing inverted minors in competition over a suit bid.
So let's assume 2C is correct.

Next.... What was partner's 3C bid. In this auction, 3C is strictly competitive, but that is ONLY if 2NT is an artificial bid showing strength. I doubt BBO has that tool. For this reason, partner's 3C bid is quite variable. In cave man standard, this probably shows values to jump to 3C. In the more modern game, 3C is probably competitive. But unless partner wants to bid 4C, he cannot invite since everything else is a game force. So while your partner might have a hand that would have bid 3C freely over your 2C call (game invite) he probably has less because two bidding opponents have something, yet have not jumped in spades.

All things considered, best assumption here is that 3C is on the light side and probably has 5+ clubs.

In that case, doubling is bad. If opponents were non-vul, it would be horrific.

What about bidding 4C?

It certainly can be a good save vs 3S. I doubt you go down 2 and get doubled in 4C.

So why not bid it.....? The answer is that you cannot defend 4S. Bidding 4C may lead opponents to feel they have to bid one more. And if they assume we have 10+ trumps, they are probably correct to do so. If they do, I would not double. My 5th club and lack of defense are very bad here, and we certainly have 10+ clubs, meaning we only have 1 trick there at most. If we should be doubling, it will be partner In fact, the only other call I would consider is 5C. But I'm not taking a sacrifice against a game they have not bid yet and I cannot quite imagine wanting to bid to 5Cx on the hopes that its off one. It is a mistake to assume the opponents have landed in their optimal spot.

Had the opponents bid to 4S freely, I would take the sac.

In IMPs, it might be OK to bid 4C and PLAN to bid 5C over 4S. After all, if our hand was the same (but black suits reversed) we would drive to 4S after a 1S opener and we'll make it fairly often, so on that basis, bidding on cannot be awful.

My scoring for the bids. (Scale of 1 to 10)
Double = 0 (or less if I can award a negative score)
Pass = 10
4C (planning to bid 5C over 4S) = 8
4C (planning to double 4S) = 0 Same deal.... I have no defense, so I cannot double.
4C (planning to sit if partner doubles) = 6 After all, par for this hand could well be 4C making exactly 4 and the double may be necessary to protect that result, but that is partner's decision since your hand is as weak and defenseless as it can be.
4C (planning to pull even if partner doubles 4S) = 4. Partner may infer more defense when I push them, but he might simply have them DOA. Remember, he could have more than a minimum yet not want to jump to 4C. Since my defense is awful, it could be right to pull, but since my hand is not GROSSLY different in defensive strength than partner expects, pulling is, at best, taking a view.
5C = 0. I see no advantage to this over 4C planning to pull to 5C
I've not seen the hand, but I suspect you ate 3SX and probably an overtrick or 2 on the side.
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#25 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-February-26, 23:53

I'm going to pass now.

If you want to bid 4 fine. However, you better be prepared for what you'll do if the opponents bid 4 .

I'm leading A. If it holds, I'll have a chance to look at dummy and on occasion may allow partner to make a suit preference signal.
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#26 User is offline   silvr bull 

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Posted 2017-February-27, 06:37



My apologies for the subterfuge question about bidding. Both the 2C (self defense from CHO! in an Individual!! on BBO!!!!) and final pass (happy that the opps had not bid 4S) seem so obviously correct to me that I would not have wasted readers' time with posting that question alone. Fortunately, the diverse comments here make that portion of my OP worth the time to read. FYI, 3S was down one for an average score because many other pairs were allowed to play in 3C (making 3), or they doubled 3S (down 1).

I really did want opinions about the opening lead, but if I posted only that part, more responses might have been "altered" than were already. The CA is such an obvious lead, after CHO bid Cs twice, that posters could guess that the winning lottery ticket would have a different number. The reason I posted that question is after the hand, CHO almost shouted into the chat box that I was an idiot because everyone knows that his C rebid told me specifically to NOT lead Cs. Normally, I would dismiss that chatter as the ravings of a double dummy resulter, but this time could have been a little different. This CHO self identified as an Expert, and he had a substantial accumulation of BBO masterpoints to back that up. I wanted to see if his clear and unambiguous statement (that his C rebid told me to NOT lead Cs) could be something I had not heard before but should know about. No offense intended to that CHO, or to any of the posters here.

An additional comment on the opening lead question. If I had reason to worry that leading the CA might lose a trick for us (if RHO bid NT, for example), then the H9 would have been my 2nd choice. But absent any additional information, the question is whether the CA or H9 is more likely to win or lose. The risks of leading a C are obvious, but a H is not risk free either. Imagine CHO's reaction if one opp had HKTxx and the other had HAJx with a stiff C. Then the H lead would not only give away the HQ guess, but it would also make the C trick disappear. My guess now is the same as it was at the table, that both round suit leads have approximately similar risks. If that is true, then I fall back to an old axiom. If I lead the suit CHO bid (TWICE in this case), and it turns out to be not best, then we share the blame. If I guess a different suit, then I better be right or the blame is all on me. Thanks for all the input.
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#27 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2017-February-27, 09:18

View Postsilvr bull, on 2017-February-27, 06:37, said:

This CHO self identified as an Expert,


YUGE overbid.

3 is either a rookie - intermediate error or indy masterminding and the comment about not leading a club points clearly to the former.

Further, not doubling 3 after you pushed 2 passed hands there (RED no less) is cowardly in the extreme.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
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#28 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2017-February-27, 09:56

Leading the cA is poor and perhaps should be the focus of the discussion. Not so terrible after the rebid 3C. But hopefully its clearer to bid 3C now.
Hi y'all!

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#29 User is offline   GrahamJson 

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Posted 2017-February-27, 10:58

Can't say that I'm impressed with north's bidding. Having opened 1C on a three card suit and 4333 he doesn't have any more to say. Certainly competing with 3C should guarantee at least a four card suit. But then I normally play 12-14 NT so never have to open three card suits so what do I know.
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#30 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2017-February-27, 11:32

CHO is used to partners who don't think (but as you say, this is an Indy). 3 on that hand is criminal, and is only reasonable if he plays with partners who think balance is something to do with duct tape and the Force (but, as you say, this is an Indy).

On the auction - "once you have made your bed, lie in it." Whether it's 2 (book bid) or 3 (overstrength preempt, hope partner doesn't miss 3NT; but probably right anyway), you've shown your hand. Note to IGo - it is highly likely that 2 is single raise, 3 is preemptive raise, and 2 is limit (-or-better, but we're a passed hand).

But "Rule 10: don't underlead aces." "Rule 9: don't lead aces." applies here. If partner *does* have the 3 immediate, the chance that the clubs are 2-1 or 2-2 is quite high, and Kx in declarer is a very likely combination. We should get in (well, partner should get in) sometime, and can lead clubs. If I pitched the club trick, oh well.

"3 says you shouldn't lead clubs." So, with Kxxx instead of Qxx she would have passed? Maybe what she's saying is "you should realize that after I raise again, the danger of giving away a club trick with that suit is high."

But anyone who yells at their partner in an Indy has already lost.
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