[silvr bull]

This is part one of a three part set of issues with the same hand. What call do you make: P, 1S, 2S, 3S, 4S, other?
Those who have seen this hand can vote, but please do not comment on this part 1 issue until part 2 is shown.

BBO tournament at matchpoints. We are white and the opps are red.

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Part 2 of 3: Do you bid or pass after West calls 4H?

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Part 3: West leads the CA and then switches to the DK. You win the DA and lead the S9 from dummy. East follows low. What do you do? The poll 3 choices are (1) ride the 9, (2) play the ten, or (3) play a high S.

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[xavierf]

I would bid 3S, 4S is much easier for the opp because 90% of the time they will double and pass,

If the hearts and spades were swifted I would open on the 4th level

[maartenxq]

No opening values, 2 ♠too timid, 4 ♠too high, so per exclusion we bid 3.
Maarten Baltussen

[silvr bull]

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The hand for Part 1 is repeated above. I selected 2S for South's bid for several reasons. If North has a maximum pass and the opps are silent, he can bid 2NT to invite game. Then South can bid 3C to show a maximum 2S hand, and a C feature, and interest in going to game even opposite North's passed hand. That would be enough information for North to bid 4S if he has an excellent fit, perhaps something like xxx {Kxxx x or x Kxxx} AKxxx. If North does not have an excellent fit, then 4S is unlikely to make and it is better to play in 3S. If South opens 1S, it will be difficult to exchange that level of information, especially if the opps interfere. If South open 3S, then there can be no information exchange and North must guess. If the hand belongs to the opps and they can make a close game, then they will have to guess well at the 3 level after a 2S opening to bid that game. If South opens 1S instead, the opps will have more bidding space to define their hands and get to the best contract. Conversely, if South opens 3S there will be less bidding space, but that may push the opps into a 4H game that would be difficult to bid if they did not need to guess.

For part 2, South's opening bid is 2S. West jumps to 4H, and it is South's turn again after P, P. Should S pass or bid? The new poll questions are in the OP.

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[Kaitlyn S]

I had originally bid 4S. However, I am not giving the opponents a double shot - a chance to double 4S now that one player has described his hand with 4H. The shortest bridge book is (or should be) rebids by preemptor. You preempt at any level you decide to, then you shut up unless (a) partner forces you to bid or (b) partner makes a penalty double, they run, and you have decent defensive prospects in the new contract in light of your earlier bidding. Of course, if you made a tactical preempt in third or fourth seat with about 18 points, you can break the rule and express your opinion that it's your hand by doubling, but that's not the case here.

Somehow, I'll bet that's not the action taken at the table, else part three wouldn't be forthcoming (unless it's a defense problem.)

[sfi]

To quote Daniel Jackson on BridgeWinners:

Quote

I think that if you feel like taking another call after preempting, you didn't make the right call the first time.

Bidding 4S now is the sort of action that loses you good partners.

[Phil]

Perfectly fine to open 4S in my book.

Sometimes partner flops 1444 and soft crud. You go for 800 against their +110.

Other times they overcompete, or 4S is making or its -100 against their 620.

[mr1303]

1S is fine, I would do this in 1st/2nd seat so it can't be terrible in 3rd.

3S is OK, it allows partner to bid 4S with spade support over their 4H, and it'll probably be right when he does.

4S is a bit much, it will go X float too often and go for 300 / 500 when they weren't making anything.

2S is terrible. We would all bid 2S here on KJxxx and out at this seat and vulnerability, so partner is going to misjudge horrifically.

[mr1303]

For part 2, the fact that this is even a question shows that 2S was the wrong bid to begin with.

[silvr bull]

mr1303, on 2017-February-08, 18:30, said:

2S is terrible. We would all bid 2S here on KJxxx and out at this seat and vulnerability, so partner is going to misjudge horrifically.

A joke starts with the Lone Ranger and his faithful companion surrounded by indians on the warpath. The Lone Ranger says "Well Tonto, it looks like we will not survive this time." Tonto replies "What you mean WE, white man?" I hope there are still a few of "us" who prefer to have good values for our bids. My partner would indeed misjudge horrifically if I opened KJxxx and out with any bid in any situation.

Opening 2S when the outstanding 30 HCP could have been divided more or less equally among the other three hands offers the possibility that we could bid a game when we have the right cards and fit so that it will make, but that we will stay out of game when we cannot make. That surgical approach appeals more to me than hitting the hand with a sledgehammer in my first bid. After West announces a strong hand by his jump to 4H, however, the situation changed and a 4S sacrifice seems clear. To paraphrase JFK, if I don't bid it, who? If not now, when? I added my lonely vote for 4S.

The North hand and the poll 3 questions are now shown in the OP.

[Kaitlyn S]

mr1303, on 2017-February-08, 18:30, said:

2S is terrible. We would all bid 2S here on KJxxx and out at this seat and vulnerability, so partner is going to misjudge horrifically.

Maybe we wouldn't all do it but IMO the majority of experts would.

[rmnka447]

I'm one of the 1 ♠ bidders because of the 6 loser hand. Also, in this day and age 3rd seat weak 2s are played as "anything goes" by many people. With Drury available for most pairs, most decent 10-11 3rd seat major hands are opened in 1 of a major. So 3rd seat weak 2s can be real dross.

I've also noticed more recently that if you open a 3rd seat weak 2, that 4th seats with a good hand tend to push more aggressively to game after a 3rd seat weak 2. It's probably an inference about what failure to open a 3rd seat 1 of a major implies.

I'm passing 4 ♥.

[Phil]

On the play I cant see much difference between LHO being 2731 and 3721 so I might as well try for Jx off and play spades from the top.

[Phil]

Note that if you open 4s it seems youll get a 5H overcall which you are beating.

[eagles123]

i would open 4s

[rmnka447]

Phil, on 2017-February-10, 00:03, said:

On the play I cant see much difference between LHO being 2731 and 3721 so I might as well try for Jx off and play spades from the top.

I'm making the same play for a couple reasons.

First, if trump are adversely breaking (5-1,6-0), you're probably going down anyway. So I'm playing ♠ from the top and taking the 52% probability of no spade losers that implies (3-3, dropping ♠ J doubleton from 4-2 break).

Second, the ♣ A lead looks ominously like a stiff. If I finesse in ♠ and it loses, a red suit under lead followed by a ♣ return for a ruff could result in going down in a cold contract.

[silvr bull]

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The full hand is above. Those who opened 2S and then took the 4S sacrifice (only me so far), and those who opened 4S have a great opportunity, provided they unblock clubs (at trick one and again the next time they play the suit), and provided they rise with a top trump and continue to pull trump. The best sacrifices are the ones that make with overtricks!

I posted this hand to see if my example in the Decision Point tournament proposal thread (http://www.bridgebas...nt-tournaments/) was OK or not. The comments here tell me that a different example hand would have been a better choice. Thanks to all.

[mr1303]

That isn't a 4H overcall over 2S either.

4S happens to be a lucky make. That doesn't make 4S correct. It especially doesn't make 2S correct, unless this is a 2S opening in your style, but then you are giving the opponents an easy time when you have a more normal 3rd seat green weak 2.

[nige1]

silvr bull, on 2017-February-07, 00:44, said:

Part 1 of a three part set of issues with the same hand. What call do you make: P, 1S, 2S, 3S, 4S, other? Those who have seen this hand can vote, but please do not comment on this part 1 issue until part 2 is shown.
BBO tournament at matchpoints. We are white and the opps are red.
Part 2 of 3: Do you bid or pass after West calls 4H?
Part 3: West leads the CA and then switches to the DK. You win the DA and lead the S9 from dummy. East follows low. What do you do? The poll 3 choices are (1) ride the 9, (2) play the ten, or (3) play a high S.

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• I rank opening bids in the order 1♠/2♠, 3♠, 4♠ (it's a close decision).
• After opening 2♠ if LHO's 4♥ were passed round to me I'd pass.
• I would finesse ♠T. The auction indicates that LHO has long ♥s, so he has less space for ♠J. Also, holding 3 losing ♠s might have deterred LHO from bidding 4♥