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Stayman or 3NT?

Poll: Stayman or 3NT? (37 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you roll out (simple) Stayman? (or just bid 3NT)

  1. Yes, 4-4 spade fit will go better (27 votes [72.97%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 72.97%

  2. No. Feels notrumpy, plus don't tell them anything (9 votes [24.32%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 24.32%

  3. No. Crap hand, only worth an invite (1 votes [2.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.70%

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#21 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2017-January-14, 11:21

according to han's analysis, stayman has a small edge when one factors in the impact of the information leak on the opening lead. I tend to believe that factoring in the impact on the whole defence would give blasting a small edge but that would require lots of data to demonstrate.
OBAR = OverBidding At Random? --- Vampyr
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#22 User is offline   bobcandoit 

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Posted 2017-January-14, 17:17

Even with a spade fit, losing trick count implies game is not likely.
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#23 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-January-16, 03:24

I'd definitely Stayman with the hand because of the normal advantages of a 4-4 major fit. In this particular hand, neither 3 NT nor 4 was particularly good. Those are the breaks sometime.

You might not "prefer 3 NT on the South cards" if partner's and were reversed. Then 3 NT can go down off the top with a lead.

The point being that you can't always judge what's right solely from your own hand.
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#24 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2017-January-16, 05:22

View Postbobcandoit, on 2017-January-14, 17:17, said:

Even with a spade fit, losing trick count implies game is not likely.

Interesting. I automatically bid game with ten points but considering some possible hands partner could have, an invite may be enough.

Partner could have AQxx-KJxx-Ax-Kxx. So I think we need to give it a chance. But obviously he would accept with that.

BTW, the poll questions are strange. If I consider it worth only an invite I could still use Stayman.
OBAR = OverBidding At Random? --- Vampyr
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#25 User is offline   maartenxq 

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Posted 2017-February-08, 09:58

Difficult. 3nt may be better but shape and medium intermediate cards make me bid stayman. Plus i hate to be the wise guy who decides on some whims where to go without consulting partner.
Maarten Baltussen
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#26 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2017-February-09, 08:43

First, thanks for the hand. It's of interest.

I suppose I am stubborn, but I still start with Stayman and then bid 4S. If I am playing 1NT-3C as Puppet, I start with that but you stipulated standard Stayman so 2C it is.

We have 25 high card points so they have 15. Whenever that happens, they can have three Aces and an accompanying K. But usually they won't. And there is always the danger of a ruff. But, as I say, I am stubborn. 2C here, and I am sticking with it.


Imps are stipulated but the imp/mp issue has been mentioned. On some hands, both 3NT and 4M will make, both on the nose. In imps, it makes little difference. In mps, you want to be in the major. So on any close calls about whether to use Stayman, I am more inclined at imps to just blast, and use Stayman at mps. On the current hand I would figure (when just looking at my hand) that if we have the strength to make nine tricks in NT then a club ruff will probably bring us up to ten tricks in spades.

I can, belatedly, see the point of just inviting but the fact is I would not do it. Stubborn. Can't help it.
Ken
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#27 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-February-09, 10:56

View Posthelene_t, on 2017-January-16, 05:22, said:

Interesting. I automatically bid game with ten points but considering some possible hands partner could have, an invite may be enough.

I think this is wrong to be honest. The South hand is worth a good 9 in my book and that is for me worth game opposite a 15-17 NT. On the other hand, I consider the North hand as worth no more than 14.5 but for some reason people are much more reluctant to devalue a hand outside of their NT range than upgrade into it, so I doubt there would be a lot of takers for moving this down into 1. In some ways the hands play much better if using a 14-16 NT. Now the South hand really does look like an invite. Such range effects on specific hands are hardly a good basis for system decisions though.
(-: Zel :-)
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