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lower limit for strong artificial 2c

#1 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2016-December-26, 21:08



Seems to me that the total points formula and/or 2c opening criteria could probably use a tweak if the North hand doesn't qualify.

Also maybe the 4s bid should be weaker hcp + have an upper limit, more distributional, as I think is somewhat standard? Though maybe GIB isn't good handling fake jump shifts to show strength. Here it does have an easy natural 3H call. It's probably fine if we at least tweak the 2c opener. I think 1s-1nt-4s should be about 8-8.5 tricks at most, not 10.
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#2 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2016-December-26, 22:10




The definition of strong 2 opening is " Strong two club -- 19+hcp,23+TPs,forcing to 2N."
However there is only 22TPs in this hand, for Gibs,it means 22TPs never be so strong enough to open strong 2 in any situations.
I am wondering what you are saying because you have been a fanatic admirer of the Total Point evaluation in the past.
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#3 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2016-December-26, 22:14


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#4 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2016-December-27, 03:27

View Postlycier, on 2016-December-26, 22:10, said:

The definition of strong 2 opening is " Strong two club -- 19+hcp,23+TPs,forcing to 2N."
However there is only 22TPs in this hand, for Gibs,it means 22TPs never be so strong enough to open strong 2 in any situations.
I am wondering what you are saying because you have been a fanatic admirer of the Total Point evaluation in the past.


1. I have never claimed total points were perfect as is.
2. I only disputed your notion that switching to HCP only would fix stuff, and that total points should be entirely abandoned, distribution not taken into account at all.
3. Doesn't mean that formula for total points shouldn't be tweaked, or that the TP range of a particular sequence shouldn't be adjusted.
For example, IMO:
- shouldn't subtract a total point for doubleton ace or K in my opinion. doubleton Q/J, fine.
- I might shade the 2c opener down to 18+hcp, 22+TP.
- might add a bit for a 7 cd suit especially such a strong one.


Total points shouldn't be discarded completely.
KQJTxxx AKQx Ax - is a clear 2c opener in my opinion.
KQJTx AKQ Ax xxx is not a 2c opener even though it has the same number of HCP.

Your previous posts on the total point subject arguing with me were taking the fairly ridiculous position that GIB should do HCP only and discard the notion of total points, which would mean either both of these are 2c openers or neither of them is. To bid well it needs to take both HCP and distribution into account, depending on the auction, which means some sort of "total points" formula. Ideally this would adjust dynamically as the auction goes on but currently it doesn't. Total points need to be considered, but the range of total points for certain bids on certain auctions needs to be adjusted, and the formula itself could be improved. But moving to HCP only would be stupid.
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#5 User is offline   m1cha 

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Posted 2016-December-27, 10:45

To me this is a very clear 2 opener. The problem is that GIB so far is not counting tricks.

For the time being, the only way out may be to play "best hand". :)
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#6 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2017-January-05, 11:01

I reported it since it looks like 23 TP to me, and certainly wouldn't downgrade for any other reason.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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