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Jump reverse what they are used for?

#1 User is offline   Oceanss 

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Posted 2016-September-12, 12:45

Please assume simple 2/1, playing IMPs in Main BBO room against random opponents. All vulnerable. RHO passes.
You hold Qx KJ KQJ8 AKQT7. Would many try 2N opening?
I choose 1C. With opps silent pard bids 1S.
If 2D is 16+ with 9+ cards in minors, 3N balanced 20ish that did not open 2NT for some reason and 4D a splinter for spades, what would be a 3D bid?? (a friend suggested 3d could be good hand with Hxx support for spades, honor(s) in diamonds and good clubs; suggesting play 4S in 43 fit or 3N if p holds stoppers in unbid suit)
And how that would change if there was a double over 1C, and no further bids then?

While discussing above situation with friends afterwards, someone mentioned a hand like AQ AQJ xx AJxxxx.
What would you choose to do (opps silent) after 1C-1S? what's lesser lie?

Thanks in advance :)
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2016-September-12, 13:17

These suggestions are very reasonable, but I think most pairs play it as a splinter. I know a few who play it as 56 with minimum strength.
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#3 User is offline   masse24 

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Posted 2016-September-12, 13:41

Agree with Helene. 3 (Jump-Reverse) = Splinter.

Either a Mini-Splinter--forcing to 3--or, occasionally a stronger version. However, there is no reason it must be limited. This allows the 4 call to show a void with enough to bid game.

Since a 2 reverse is ostensibly unlimited, there is no reason for 3 to show a super-duper strong reverse--though I know two pairs who play it this way. :blink:

With the hand you held, I'll simply reverse with 2.
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#4 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2016-September-12, 14:07

There are 2 methods that i like about 3 bid in the auction

1--1M
3

A-Splinter
B-Big hand in clubs, 1 suited (1327, 2227,2137) and too strong for 3 jump.(17+)

I use B myself.
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#5 User is offline   masse24 

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Posted 2016-September-12, 14:32

View PostMrAce, on 2016-September-12, 14:07, said:

There are 2 methods that i like about 3 bid in the auction

1--1M
3

A-Splinter
B-Big hand in clubs, 1 suited (1327, 2227,2137) and too strong for 3 jump.(17+)

I use B myself.


Interesting -- I had not heard of this previously. Do you still use 3NT for something somewhat similar? Solid, long suit?
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#6 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

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Posted 2016-September-12, 14:41

View Postmasse24, on 2016-September-12, 14:32, said:

Interesting -- I had not heard of this previously. Do you still use 3NT for something somewhat similar? Solid, long suit?

Yes, I'll opt for 2NT on the first hand. And I think the second hand has 14 cards; but I think you might have intended AQ, AQJ, xx, AJxxxx, an impossible hand to bid in standard bidding. Possibly one of those new-fangled gadgets will handle it (and yes, K. learning Gazzili (which probably handles this) is still on my todo list, albeit pretty far down, but today I would open 1C intending to rebid 2NT. Ugh, I hope partner doesn't respond 1H and then pass!

I like your initial sequence to be a splinter. If my partner advertises 2/1 or splinters on his profile, I would expect partner to read it correctly. 1C-1S-2D is unlimited, and if I open iC and partner bids 1S, my 2D bid is forcing, so there is no need to bid 3D.
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#7 User is offline   masse24 

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Posted 2016-September-12, 14:43

View PostKaitlyn S, on 2016-September-12, 14:41, said:

Yes, I'll opt for 2NT on the first hand. And I think the second hand has 14 cards; but I think you might have intended AQ, AQJ, xx, AJxxxx, an impossible hand to bid in standard bidding. Possibly one of those new-fangled gadgets will handle it (and yes, K. learning Gazzili (which probably handles this) is still on my todo list, albeit pretty far down, but today I would open 1C intending to rebid 2NT. Ugh, I hope partner doesn't respond 1H and then pass!

I like your initial sequence to be a splinter. If my partner advertises 2/1 or splinters on his profile, I would expect partner to read it correctly. 1C-1S-2D is unlimited, and if I open iC and partner bids 1S, my 2D bid is forcing, so there is no need to bid 3D.


Unsure why this is directed towards me, but . . . okay. :blink:
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#8 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

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Posted 2016-September-13, 00:21

Because I'm too clueless to reply to the right post?
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#9 User is offline   Oceanss 

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Posted 2016-September-13, 09:19

View PostKaitlyn S, on 2016-September-12, 14:41, said:

And I think the second hand has 14 cards; but I think you might have intended AQ, AQJ, xx, AJxxxx, an impossible hand to bid in standard bidding. Possibly one of those new-fangled gadgets will handle it...

Opps, you are right, hand was to be with lousy diamond doubleton, 6 card "empty" clubs.

Thanks all for replies; yet I am still bit confused.
As you said 3D is not needed to show hand with minors, as 2D is unlimited; why we need TWO bids to show splinter (3D and 4D)??
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2016-September-13, 09:21

View PostOceanss, on 2016-September-13, 09:19, said:

Opps, you are right, hand was to be with lousy diamond doubleton, 6 card "empty" clubs.

Thanks all for replies; yet I am still bit confused.
As you said 3D is not needed to show hand with minors, as 2D is unlimited; why we need TWO bids to show splinter (3D and 4D)??

Yes good point, we don't, really. You could agree that 3!d is a singleton, or a limit raise with a void, while 4 is GF with a void.
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#11 User is offline   Oceanss 

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Posted 2016-September-13, 11:16

View Posthelene_t, on 2016-September-13, 09:21, said:

Yes good point, we don't, really. You could agree that 3!d is a singleton, or a limit raise with a void, while 4 is GF with a void.

TY Helene, makes sense :)
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#12 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2016-September-13, 11:24

With one partner I actually agreed that the cheapest jump reverse (there are two jump reverses in case the auction starts 1-1) shows the 18-19 balanced hand with 4 card support.

Rik
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#13 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2016-September-13, 11:45

View PostTrinidad, on 2016-September-13, 11:24, said:

With one partner I actually agreed that the cheapest jump reverse (there are two jump reverses in case the auction starts 1-1) shows the 18-19 balanced hand with 4 card support.

Rik


I like that one too. Did not hear it before.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#14 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2016-September-13, 13:06

View PostMrAce, on 2016-September-13, 11:45, said:

I like that one too. Did not hear it before.

One problem I had is that I couldn't come up with a nice acronym for it. :)

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
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