[lycier]

Here is a Gib hand.

---

I take south seat. Here I have no way to overcall.
2NT= Invitational to 3NT game---24hcp,stop in ♠.
3NT= 5-♥,5-♠,25-32hcp,likely stop in ♠.

---

Here I also have no way to overcall.
2NT= Invitational to 3 game----20+hcp,20-TPs,stop in ♠.
3NT= 20-TPs. Obviously this bid is undefined.

Obviously, the definitions on both of 2NT and 3NT above usually are impossible or very small probabilities, I would think such definitions are meaningless.

[The_Badger]

hi lycier,

I realise GIB isn't perfect, and some of the hand descriptions are mediocre or worse, and I genuinely empathise with you when playing with or against a Robot.

I admit I play with or against the Robots infrequently, but surely the best thing to do is to list and mail all these anomalies to Gibware.com, so that they can look into this. BBO uses GIB software but isn't responsible for the bids it generates.

Programming a bridge computer, a friend of mine with a MSc in IT told me, is a 1000 times more difficult than programming a chess computer

[Stefan_O]

The_Badger, on 2016-August-23, 03:40, said:

but surely the best thing to do is to list and mail all these anomalies to Gibware.com, so that they can look into this. BBO uses GIB software but isn't responsible for the bids it generates.

I thought BBO took over gibware, so the only ones doing any dev-work on Gib today are the BBO-developers?

The_Badger, on 2016-August-23, 03:40, said:

Programming a bridge computer, a friend of mine with a MSc in IT told me, is a 1000 times more difficult than programming a chess computer

Yes, that is quite true, unfortunately (unless you love tough challenges ).

The big difference is that in Chess, ALL input you need is available right there in the chessboard+position itself.
Nothing hidden/unknown at all.
What you need is good position-evaluation algorithm, some smart optimization algorithms, and a lot of computer power --- the more the better.

In Bridge, however, there is this whole lot of unknown/uncertain information you have to deal with.
For example:
- How are the cards placed in the hidden hands?
- What bidding-system are opps using?
- What bidding-system are we using? --- seems Gib has quite some issues here
- All the different types of bids and bidding-conventions you have to deal with...
- How would the other players act if they held a certain hand? Is it consistent with what they already did?
- What did they not do? And what does that mean?
- Psychic or irregular bids.
and much more, like percentages, suit-handling, elimination-plays, etc, to mention only a few...

[iandayre]

The_Badger, on 2016-August-23, 03:40, said:

hi lycier,

I realise GIB isn't perfect, and some of the hand descriptions are mediocre or worse, and I genuinely empathise with you when playing with or against a Robot.

I admit I play with or against the Robots infrequently, but surely the best thing to do is to list and mail all these anomalies to Gibware.com, so that they can look into this. BBO uses GIB software but isn't responsible for the bids it generates.

Programming a bridge computer, a friend of mine with a MSc in IT told me, is a 1000 times more difficult than programming a chess computer

You are mistaken Badger. BBO is now the sole owner of GIB and is 100% responsible for its maintenance and development.

As for Lycier's point, it is correct. They are just a couple of examples of situations where calls in NT should be unusual, but are not so defined.

[The_Badger]

iandayre, on 2016-August-23, 12:34, said:

You are mistaken Badger. BBO is now the sole owner of GIB and is 100% responsible for its maintenance and development.

As for Lycier's point, it is correct. They are just a couple of examples of situations where calls in NT should be unusual, but are not so defined.

Thanks iandayre,

Didn't know BBO are sole owner of GIB. Maybe they should encourage players to report faults and anomalies by awarding BB$ to players that do. They have purchased BB$ to play against the robots, so when the Bots do something wrong or illogical it's only fair that they are compensated in kind.

To be fair, GIB is a brilliant bridge program, but it's far from perfect as quite a few commentators have illustrated on these discussion forums.

[1eyedjack]

The_Badger, on 2016-August-23, 15:37, said:

Maybe they should encourage players to report faults and anomalies

I don't think that lack of reporting faults is the problem. The problem is that the rate of reporting of faults outstrips their resources to fix them.

[The_Badger]

1eyedjack, on 2016-August-23, 23:55, said:

I don't think that lack of reporting faults is the problem. The problem is that the rate of reporting of faults outstrips their resources to fix them.

Totally agree 1eyedjack, it's a bit like a 'potholes in the road scenario' but once they are fixed everybody's happier However, in my opinion, BBO having acquired Gibware.com, have a direct responsibility to improve and fine tune the software and should provide resources to do so.

If Gibware.com were still an independent company, a smaller entity, then I'm sure people who used the Robots wouldn't feel so aggrieved.

[1eyedjack]

The_Badger, on 2016-August-24, 04:30, said:

If Gibware.com were still an independent company, a smaller entity, then I'm sure people who used the Robots wouldn't feel so aggrieved.

I find it difficult to quantify how aggrieved the general population is. Your wording "so aggrieved" suggests quite a high level of dissatisfaction, but I wonder where is the evidence for that? Maybe they *should* be aggrieved, but that is another matter.