[manudude03]

P_Marlowe, on 2016-August-23, 05:59, said:

I agree, if you hit partner with diamond shortage or no wastage in diamond, but why should he have diamond shortage
/ no diamond wastage? Given the auction, what hints do you have?
I can follow the argument to make slam try, but bidding it, as a passed hand?

I did consider bidding 4H, but unknown partner, and I don't even think cuebidding is mandatory if I do bid 4H especially with me being a passed hand. Partner may well have diamond wastage, but even if so you aren't down yet. xxx x KQxx AKxxx is at worst requiring clubs 2-1 and the spade finesse working, plus on a non-spade lead you may get the misdefense of south popping the ace of diamonds (though if the ace was onside, then the spade finesse is almost certainly working anyway) and they might even lead the ace of diamonds gifting the slam at trick 1. The hands I gave in my previous post were all 10 counts that I'm pretty sure most wouldn't overcall on, you can add whatever diamond values you like to them and slam could never be any worse.

[Jinksy]

One of the reasons the slam is hard to bid might be that it's a bad slam.

[Jinksy]

Also after double, P might find a MP pass, which will score well (and apparently N might make it easier/more profitable for him by raising).

[manudude03]

I don't know how many tricks declarer is entitled to if they do play in hearts. The table that passed 2H ended up defending 2H going -2 which is only 300 NV (or 500 if raised to 3H).

[Jinksy]

Sure, you'll lose to the people in game. But how much of the room will be, after three passes then 1♣ 1♥ / 2♣ (or 1N) ... ? Is east likely to blast game at MPs as a passed hand? Or if he invites, is opener with a dubious 12-count supposed to accept? Heck, I suspect at a lot of tables in a larger room, the hand would be passed out.

[manudude03]

I don't really think East can pass the double anyway, it is banking on the contract going 2 off, when you are very likely making something and the 5 card club suit is quite a big negative. Besides, if it is raised to 3H, then is double from East even penalty? If so, what do you do with a 3244 10 count? Something I may have neglected to say earlier is that I usually play a very sound overcall style, so I was expecting a somewhat better hand opposite whenever I jumped to 6C.

[MrAce]

manudude03, on 2016-August-22, 11:34, said:

My thoughts were that this hand should double, but it is pretty rancid and wouldn't criticise pass. Of the three tables who had this auction, one passed and the other two bid 3C. The 3C bidders hit the proverbial jackpot (who'd have thought you could make a slam here). Full hand and auction at my table.

I agree that E hand should DBL. I really think Pass and 3♣ are both awful bids. Both are so bad IMO that if I start explaining, it takes pages of typing which I am not willing to do. As Rainer pointed, even at IMPs, let alone MP.

You stated very well that 3♣ hit the jackpot. I completely disagree with your bidding 6. You found the perfect holding vs your stiff, still needed a finesse to make your slam, a finesse that is unlikely to work due to 2♥ opening. I have to admit that you also found a ♥K which is useless, but making it ♦K would not make much of a change either. Would be great OTOH, if it was ♣ K. One thing I learned over the years is that when we come from pass, partners do not expect us to take waco actions like bidding slam. They take actions, whether that be an overcall or double, relying on expectation that we will not drag them too much. Having said that, when I look at the traveler of this board and auctions, your 6 ♣ probably lands on last or last 2 in the list of calls that I would not make.

[billw55]

manudude03, on 2016-August-24, 18:16, said:

Something I may have neglected to say earlier is that I usually play a very sound overcall style, so I was expecting a somewhat better hand opposite whenever I jumped to 6C.

Agree, for a 3-level overcall I expect a better hand. 6♣ is still bold, but not wild.