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Cue the Uncertain Value

#1 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2016-August-12, 08:06

An auction last night reminded me of a cool principle that would have helped. The auction started with a strong balanced 2NT opening and a transfer to hearts. Opener now wants to super-accept.

In that scenario, Opener has one call to show whatever he wants to show. What, then, is an efficient super-accept approach?

When Opener will likely have 7 interesting features, showing all 7 is impossible at this level. The most efficient method seems to be to show the feature that is uncertain in value.

Consider my hand:

A A109x KQxx AKxx

Aces, and to a large degree Kings, clearly have value. The two suspect values are the diamond Queen and the spade shortness. (If the hand were the same honors and 2-4-3-4 or 2-4-4-3 shape, the doubleton would be the uncertain shortness value).

In that context, the ideal approach, IMO, is to cuebid the uncertain value.

Partner had xxx KQxxx Axx xx. He likes all of my Aces and Kings, wherever they happen to be. Consider shortness and Queens, though:

1. He loves a diamond Queen, likes a spade Queen, but hates a club Queen.

2. He loves spade shortness, likes diamond shortness, but hates club shortness.

How, then, to unwind this?

There seem to be two general approaches worth considering. Shortness then Queen, or Queen then shortness. Not sure which is better first, but suppose we randomly call one the "A" value and the other the "B" value. "A" could be shortness ("B" then Queen), or "A" could be Queen ("B" then shortness). A fair approach:

2NT-P-3-P-3 = super-accept, "A" value in spades. 3NT then asks for the "B" value, with 4 = club "B" value, 4 = diamond "B" value (maintains right-siding)

2NT-P-3-P-3NT = "A" value in clubs with a "B" value somewhere. 4 asks where. 4 = diamond "B" value (wrong-sided, but whatever), 4 = spade "B" value

2NT-P-3-P-4 = "A" value in diamonds, "B" value in clubs

2NT-P-3-P-4 = "A" value in diamonds, "B" value in spades (avoids wrong-siding)

There are more options not yet defined, but the approach ends up, summarized, as follows:

1. Show the spade "A" value with 3 and then show the "B" value if asked by relay

2. Show the club "A" value with 3NT and then show the "B" value if asked by relay

3. Immediately show the diamond "A" value by identifying the "B" value at the four-level

4. If you have space to skip over the one-under call, do so.

With the actual hand prompting this discussion:

2NT-P-3-P-4 (if "A" value is the side Queen and "B" the short spade, Opener shows this hand

2NT-P-3-P-3(if "A" value is shortness)-P-3NT-P-4("B" value in diamonds, but skip 4 if space to do so)





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#2 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2016-August-12, 08:12

FWIW, our auction was hopeless. After 2NT-P-3, I super-accepted randomly with 4. Partner said, "I don't play super-acceptances" and therefore passed 4. I wasn't sure what that meant. Apparently, per the explanation, 4 showed the same 20-21 HCP and did not show anything extra. Instead, it showed that Opener wanted to bid 4 rather than 3 for any number of reasons, including perhaps that the 3 card had fallen out of the box, preempting seemed reasonable to deflect likely balancing, I had to use the restroom and thus wanted to speed up the auction, I was angry about the last hand and did not want to risk partner passing (plausible meaning, conceded), etc.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#3 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2016-August-12, 15:20

What if I choose to not open 1-4-4-4 20+HCP hand with a 2NT instead of a 2 or a 1m opening?

Would it not solve the so-called dilemmas you have posed in the OP or the rejoinder?
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#4 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2016-August-12, 21:34

First of all, the exact same issue arises with the same honors and 2434 or 2443. (I knew some Joker would point out that issue.)

Second, though, the other plausible sequences create their own (worse) issues. For instance, a 2C overbid followed by what?
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-August-14, 05:36

I thought you preferred the UES approach to super-accepts, Ken?
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#6 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2016-August-14, 08:17

View PostZelandakh, on 2016-August-14, 05:36, said:

I thought you preferred the UES approach to super-accepts, Ken?


Very interesting. What does LTTC mean?
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#7 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2016-August-14, 12:12

I do like UES, but some dont buy it. The slow value cue was an alternative. I think the two could be combined. I now think the non-UES should be a Queen cue, cuebidding the side Queen. The next up could ask for the doubleton.

2NT-3D-?

3S=UES
3NT=cue of spade Queen. 4C asks for doubleton (4♢ diamond doubleton, 4♡ club).
4♧=club Queen. 4♢ retransfer, 4♡ asks for doubleton.
4♢=diamond Queen, club doubleton
4♡=diamond Queen, spade doibleton
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#8 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2016-August-14, 16:44

What do you do with more than one 3rd round control of the same type (queen, doubleton)?
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#9 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2016-August-14, 17:55

View Postnullve, on 2016-August-14, 16:44, said:

What do you do with more than one 3rd round control of the same type (queen, doubleton)?

I have difficulty contructing a true superaccept with two side Queens and no UES.

The best I can get to, in support of spades, might be AKxx-KQx-KQxx-Ax. But, I would upgrade that to open 2C...2NT. Two Quuens outside just won't occur for me. Or it will be rare.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#10 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-August-17, 05:18

View PostVampyr, on 2016-August-14, 08:17, said:

Very interesting. What does LTTC mean?

LTTC is usually an abbreviation for Last Train to Clarksville, which in turn is commonly shortened to Last Train.
(-: Zel :-)

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#11 User is offline   Stefan_O 

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Posted 2016-August-26, 01:32

View Postkenrexford, on 2016-August-12, 08:12, said:

FWIW, our auction was hopeless. After 2NT-P-3, I super-accepted randomly with 4. Partner said, "I don't play super-acceptances" and therefore passed 4.


Lucky you didnt accept with 3 then --- not playing your alien stuff, he might have passed that, too... B-)
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