[PhilG007]

Playing in a recent tournament with an unknown partner,this deal came up :-

---

Partner opened a weak 2♥ as dealer and I bid 4♥ as a pre-emptive raise.
Partner made 12 tricks as the K♥ was onside. I thought it would be a good result for us.
Imagine my chagrin when I saw almost 70% of the field had either found the♥ slam or had doubled the opponents 4♠ for a heavy penalty.
Needless to say it was a lousy result,a near bottom in fact. What happened there?
Whose fault was that? Who was the villain? We only have a combined total of 24 points so we are well short of the slam zone.
Comments please.

[wanoff]

It's biddable if you don't waste a complete level of bidding by opening 2♥.
Do you want to be in slam? No.

[gwnn]

You need to find the HK as well as the cK (or something in clubs anyway). It's not a good slam.

As for the bidding, west is too strong for a weak two and has a weakish suit. 1H is preferable, after which east will go to 4H (in a few rounds).

[Cyberyeti]

This is a 1♥ opener not a 2♥ opener.

Agree with 4♥ over 2♥.

It's not a good slam although not terrible, but you don't want to be in it.

[rhm]

wanoff, on 2016-May-17, 02:18, said:

It's biddable if you don't waste a complete level of bidding by opening 2♥.
Do you want to be in slam? No.

Why do you want a slam biddable if you do not want to be in slam escapes me.
I wish all my slams, I do not want be in, were unbiddable.
It would save me a lot of headaches.

Rainer Herrmann

[wanoff]

rhm, on 2016-May-17, 02:37, said:

Why do you want a slam biddable if you do not want to be in slam escapes me.
I wish all my slams, I do not want be in, were unbiddable.
It would save me a lot of headaches.

Rainer Herrmann

It was biddable by 75% which hopefully wouldn't include me.
We'd bid 1♥-2NT-4♥ which shows a very weak opener with a void spade.

[Cyberyeti]

rhm, on 2016-May-17, 02:37, said:

Why do you want a slam biddable if you do not want to be in slam escapes me.
I wish all my slams, I do not want be in, were unbiddable.
It would save me a lot of headaches.

Rainer Herrmann

Because it's unbiddable opposite similar hands where slam is decent like where A♠ is K or Q and clubs are AJ10x or cold like xxx, KQxx, xx, AKJx.

[Zelandakh]

A better question is to ask how to avoid this slam while not ruling slam out completely, for example with:

1♥ = 5+ hearts
... - 2NT = GF raise
3♣ = min + shortage
... - 3♦ = relay
3♥ = void
... - 3♠ = relay
3NT = spade void
... - 4♣ = club control?
4♥ = no

It is not the number of points that is the issue here. Change the ♠A to the ♣K and slam looks a lot better despite Responder having a point less.

[1eyedjack]

PhilG007, on 2016-May-17, 02:05, said:

I bid 4♥ as a pre-emptive raise.

What everybody else said. Only if asked by opponents I would not describe East's 4H raise as "pre-emptive". It may in practice have some pre-emptive effect, but the description conveys different connotations. Generally pre-emptive bids are not made in a full expectation of making.

[Vampyr]

1eyedjack, on 2016-May-17, 04:37, said:

What everybody else said. Only if asked by opponents I would not describe East's 4H raise as "pre-emptive". It may in practice have some pre-emptive effect, but the description conveys different connotations. Generally pre-emptive bids are not made in a full expectation of making.

I agree that pre-emptive is not a good description, but game will be only so-so opposite many hands that are actually a weak 2♥.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

The weak two opening is heavy, 2 Aces and a void.
Nobody would complain, if the hand would get opened with 1H.
2H is not wrong, but it is certainly not your mainstream weak
two either.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[rmnka447]

Once West opens 2 ♥, I think it's virtually impossible to bid slam. The tools are just not available for East to get enough information to visualize 12 tricks are possible. If East uses a forcing 2 NT, West would reply 3 ♥ (good hand, bad suit) playing Ogust or 3 ♦ playing rebids show a feature. Now what? There's just not enough to do anything but for East to bid 4 ♥.

So, the slams probably are being bid after a 1 ♥ opening. One thing that will do is make it harder for East to envision that West has as minimum values as are held. After a basic Jacoby 2 NT, it could go something like this:

1 ♥ - 2 NT(Jacoby)
3 ♠(shortness) - 4 ♣*
4 ♦* - 4 ♥(waiting)
4 ♠*(void)

* - cues

and now East may will push toward slam figuring West has to have something more in ♣ to open.

For me, it would be a close call, but I'd probably open 1 ♥ as it satisfies Rule of 20 and has 2 QTs. I don't have a problem if my partner held the hand and opens 2 ♥ though.

[ggwhiz]

PhilG007, on 2016-May-17, 02:05, said:

Imagine my chagrin when I saw almost 70% of the field had either found the♥ slam or had doubled the opponents 4♠ for a heavy penalty.

What was the split?

I'm never getting to slam and I bet that those who did are not on the leaderboard at the end of the day.

However I'm opening 1♥, not 2 and consider it clear cut (just our style). That allows them to find spades to their regret and I never stop them from bidding the suit when they belong there just because I opened 2♥ instead of 1.

[Vampyr]

P_Marlowe, on 2016-May-17, 06:38, said:

2H is not wrong, but it is certainly not your mainstream weak
two either.

rmnka447, on 2016-May-17, 11:13, said:

For me, it would be a close call ... I don't have a problem if my partner held the hand and opens 2 ♥ though.

I am surprised. The void and more than half my HCP outside my suit are serious flaws, and each alone may well persuade me not to open a weak two.

Two aces and 10 HCP are each dealbreakers on their own.

So I would not, in this lifetime on this planet, open a weak 2♥ with this hand, and I thought that my views on the matter were totally mainstream.

(To be fair there are few 2♥ bidders in this thread, so perhaps just these two posters are very eccentric).

[johnu]

P_Marlowe, on 2016-May-17, 06:38, said:

The weak two opening is heavy, 2 Aces and a void.
Nobody would complain, if the hand would get opened with 1H.
2H is not wrong, but it is certainly not your mainstream weak
two either.

I disagree with the "heavy" description. I prefer to have 4 first round controls when I open a weak 2 so partner can evaluate properly.

[PhilG007]

ggwhiz, on 2016-May-17, 11:17, said:

What was the split?

I'm never getting to slam and I bet that those who did are not on the leaderboard at the end of the day.

However I'm opening 1♥, not 2 and consider it clear cut (just our style). That allows them to find spades to their regret and I never stop them from bidding the suit when they belong there just because I opened 2♥ instead of 1.

For the curious this was the full deal:-

---

As can be seen the opponents have a big fit in spades which I had suspected and was the reason I jumped to 4♥ to
make it more obstructive to South. I don't know what other players did in my seat but it was clear
East must have either passed or only bid 3♥ which could have allowed South to compete in spades
In the end I just had to put it down to posterity as one that got away. The tournament was Rock Around The Clock(1) 5/17/16 and the
board number was 4 The traveller can be found by accessing the tournament archives.

[hrothgar]

PhilG007, on 2016-May-17, 13:30, said:

I don't know what other players did in my seat but it was clear
East must have either passed or only bid 3♥ which could have allowed South to compete in spades

following a 2♥ opening, either passing or bidding 3♠ seems unthinkable.

I expect that you are seeing North bidding a weak 2♠ over a 1♥ opening

[PhilG007]

hrothgar, on 2016-May-17, 13:37, said:

following a 2♥ opening, either passing or bidding 3♠ seems unthinkable.

I expect that you are seeing North bidding a weak 2♠ over a 1♥ opening

Its possible But I'll never know. I can only assume my partner forgot to
add points for length in the heart suit which would have raised it enough
to open 1♥ Anyway as you've seen,North elected to pass over the 2♥bid.

[hrothgar]

PhilG007, on 2016-May-17, 14:21, said:

Its possible But I'll never know.

I believe that this translates as "I am too lazy to look at the auctions at the other tables"

[Phil]

Opening 2H is not bridge.

If I had the cJ I'd love being in slam but without it slam is below par. We need the hK on and not cKJx on our left. Or a good set of eyes.