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A question Instant Tourneys

#1 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2016-April-21, 16:28

Let's say you are playing BBO instant tourney. You ended up sharing the first place (or 2nd or 3rd) with someone else by playing exactly the same percentage (or imps). For the sake of argument let's say you shared the first place and that gives you 0.51 master point instead of 0.60 masterpoint had you won it by yourself.

But the person who played before you and ended up with exactly the same score gets his 0.60 masterpoint while you get 0.51. Isn't this unfair to be rewarded different masterpoints for exactly the same score in same event? (When he plays before you and gets his score for 1st place he gets his 0.60, at the time he had his score he was not sharing it with anyone)
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#2 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2016-April-21, 16:36

So what do you suggest?
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#3 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2016-April-21, 16:59

View Post1eyedjack, on 2016-April-21, 16:36, said:

So what do you suggest?


I suggest to give exactly the same masterpoint that was given to the previous player. Both gets 0.60.
Or I suggest whoever got 0.60 should also drop to 0.51 if someone else plays exactly the same score.

In fact, the more I think the more i feel weird about it. Think about this. You played % 65 and saw yourself as 1st and got 0.60 masterpoint. Later Someone else played % 70 and he also got 0.60 from same event. Later someone else plays and he also gets % 70 but gets 0.51 masterpoint, less than the one who played % 65. So the 3rd guy gets more masterpoin than the first one. Or am i missing something?
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#4 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2016-April-21, 17:10

View PostMrAce, on 2016-April-21, 16:28, said:

But the person who played before you and ended up with exactly the same score gets his 0.60 masterpoint while you get 0.51. Isn't this unfair to be rewarded different masterpoints for exactly the same score in same event? (When he plays before you and gets his score for 1st place he gets his 0.60, at the time he had his score he was not sharing it with anyone)

It's unfair if attending early is much less of a skill than attending often.
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#5 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2016-April-21, 17:44

View Postnullve, on 2016-April-21, 17:10, said:

It's unfair if attending early is much less of a skill than attending often.


I hear you. Attending often brings a lot of masterpoint. There is a solution for this and it is to use the average master point instead of total masterpoint. None of the bridge organisations will do this for obvious reasons.

I still think it is weird that someone gets more reward than another one who played the same boards and same event with much bettter score, percentage and rank.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#6 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2016-April-21, 18:40

IIRC, BBO takes 14 random players from a previously paid tournament to do the score comparisons. It's possible that the top 3 or 4 finishers are excluded from your comparisons, so you could end up winning the tournament, even though if you played in the original tournament, you would have finished 4th or 5th. I'm guessing that if different players play in the same instant tournament, they may each be comparing scores against a different subset of players.

Certainly there is an element of luck. Same type of luck happens in the tournaments big enough to have multiple sections. You may have the 4th or 5th best score overall, but may end up with a first in section because the other top scorers were assigned to a different section.
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#7 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2016-April-22, 00:40

It sounds complicated.

How many masterpoints should you get if you don't rank equally with another historical player but are still up there in the rankings?

How many masterpoints should you get if you came (say) third and the other qualifiers around you were flighted in the original event?
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#8 User is offline   Lovera 

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Posted 2016-April-22, 08:19

View PostMrAce, on 2016-April-21, 16:59, said:

I suggest to give exactly the same masterpoint that was given to the previous player. Both gets 0.60.
Or I suggest whoever got 0.60 should also drop to 0.51 if someone else plays exactly the same score.

In fact, the more I think the more i feel weird about it. Think about this. You played % 65 and saw yourself as 1st and got 0.60 masterpoint. Later Someone else played % 70 and he also got 0.60 from same event. Later someone else plays and he also gets % 70 but gets 0.51 masterpoint, less than the one who played % 65. So the 3rd guy gets more masterpoin than the first one. Or am i missing something?

MrAce hello :i think that perhaps you should be right about ("imprecise") final score. On this subject there is another one (that i thought talk about): you play a contract and the planning is ok and defence the same (let's say you realize 4+1 for a better score) but another pair gets 4+2 because an opp playing "not good" makes theirs gift of a trick for a very good score (type impossible contract) and this one occurs also when is bidded a slam having (=rush ?) a loser more than necessary. Is this way to attribuite points right ? Is actually the lone one that is applyed or can be any type of adjustament possible to rappresent better the pair that had played better refferring at the game of the hand ?(Lovera)
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#9 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2016-April-22, 11:12

We can't go back and change the original player's score -- it could have been months ago, and the points have already been reported to ACBL.

There are two ways to think about ITs. One is that it should be as if you're an additional player in the original tournament -- that seems to be what you're looking for. But you're ignoring the fact that you're only competing against 14 randomly selected players from the original tourney.

The other way, and what we do, is to treat it as a new tournament where these 14 imaginary players are playing against you. They don't get any masterpoints for this event, only you do, and your points are based on how you do against them.

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