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It's your call..high level decision...IMPs, favourable,.

Poll: Two part question (30 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you agree with the pass of 4H-X

  1. Yes (27 votes [90.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 90.00%

  2. No (3 votes [10.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

Having passed initially, what's your call?

  1. Pass (3 votes [10.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  2. X (23 votes [76.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 76.67%

  3. 5H (4 votes [13.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   foobar 

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Posted 2016-February-10, 01:35

IMPs, white vs. red, partner opens 4H (7-card suit possible and 3N would have shown a better preempt in either major).

What's your call?


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#2 User is offline   el mister 

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Posted 2016-February-10, 03:36

X - spade and diamond tenace over RHO looks good - we'll wallop 5 if we get pard a ruff or two. 5H looks iffy, could easily lack the A and have two club losers.

I'd have passed 4 - seems like a bid here is either slam-orientated or obstructing their slam, and neither scenario seems on the cards. What would XX show for most people?
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#3 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-February-10, 04:31

 el mister, on 2016-February-10, 03:36, said:

What would XX show for most people?

A typical meaning for Redouble is cooperative penalty, usually with a penalty double in 2 of the unbid suits. I think some also use it to offer partner the chance to bid 5 without being willing to commit.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#4 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2016-February-10, 07:33

I double, exit a heart, and expect to take exactly three tricks.
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
-gwnn
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#5 User is offline   foobar 

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Posted 2016-February-10, 14:38

For those wondering why this made to the Interesting Bridge Hands forum, this is one where the card gods can hand you a royal fix :ph34r::



5-X is untouchable on the layout. At the other table, EW got to play in 4 after P (!!!!) - 1 - P - P - 4 (!!!) - AP, making +1 or +2 depending on the opening lead.
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#6 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2016-February-10, 14:59

Double, the hand looks like 4 is a probable make, but 5 probably won't. The hand doesn't have the shortness to pull to 5 . If partner has shortness and decides to pull the double, chances are that your cards are right to make 5 .

OTOH, if 4 is allowed to make at the other table, you need to extract as big a penalty as possible to offset the potential swing.
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#7 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2016-February-10, 15:26

 foobar, on 2016-February-10, 14:38, said:

For those wondering why this made to the Interesting Bridge Hands forum, this is one where the card gods can hand you a royal fix :ph34r::



5-X is untouchable on the layout. At the other table, EW got to play in 4 after P (!!!!) - 1 - P - P - 4 (!!!) - AP, making +1 or +2 depending on the opening lead.


Err - 5X won't make on this layout, you won't make more than 9 trumps and a diamond unless E leads a spade, A lead and it won't be made.
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#8 User is offline   foobar 

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Posted 2016-February-10, 15:46

 Cyberyeti, on 2016-February-10, 15:26, said:

Err - 5X won't make on this layout, you won't make more than 9 trumps and a diamond unless E leads a spade, A lead and it won't be made.

Try to set it :D. A was led at the table and as long as declarer makes the reasonable assumption that the a ruffing finesse against the AQ exists (after initially ruffing a couple of small s and seeing T9 fall), it's impossible to set.
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#9 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2016-February-10, 16:26

 foobar, on 2016-February-10, 15:46, said:

Try to set it :D. A was led at the table and as long as declarer makes the reasonable assumption that the a ruffing finesse against the AQ exists (after initially ruffing a couple of small s and seeing T9 fall), it's impossible to set.

Yes OK, you can I think take enough ruffs to exhaust E of spades then set one up after you start with the K, you don't need W to hold AQ, you will catch Qxx with E.
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#10 User is offline   echo25 

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Posted 2016-February-11, 00:41

I would redouble 4Hx. However, if I were forced to pass, then I would double their 5C. The probability of voids in 2 suits is small and there is a chance for 500, maybe 800.
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#11 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2016-February-11, 05:16

 rmnka447, on 2016-February-10, 14:59, said:

If partner has shortness and decides to pull the double, chances are that your cards are right to make 5 .

I am afraid partner is not allowed to pull this double. The general rule is that a double opposite a preempt is unilateral penalty.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#12 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2016-February-11, 05:30

 helene_t, on 2016-February-11, 05:16, said:

I am afraid partner is not allowed to pull this double. The general rule is that a double opposite a preempt is unilateral penalty.


He's allowed to pull it, but he'd better have a damn good reason, something like an 0850/0940 I'd seriously consider pulling.
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#13 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2016-February-11, 16:30

 Cyberyeti, on 2016-February-11, 05:30, said:

He's allowed to pull it, but he'd better have a damn good reason, something like an 0850/0940 I'd seriously consider pulling.


no he's not. if he has a hand to pull a double, he has a hand to bid over 5c.
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#14 User is offline   creatbid 

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Posted 2016-February-12, 01:55

In terms of W, S dare double 4 when W holds AQ and AQ so S have K,K and AK at least. Moreover, S probably has A or KX or void on. E has 6cards outside and W holds 4tricks on. E-W can tolerate 1 loser on and 2 on. 4H-X-XX is reasonable. Of course W can pass, but however N will bid 5C.

In terms of E, he will pass 5C without that redouble but may bid 5 to indicate 0 instead of pass. I can imagine some brave players at the seat of W will gamble 6 on 1 more trick onPosted Image

Let's come back to the terms of W for 2nd question. W thinks they holds 3suits(except) against vulnerable N-S and then doubles 5 because only 5x-1 scores better for N-S. Although S will get 5x-1 by the most reasonable lead, in most situations N-S will get worse result by such unfavorable vulnerabilityPosted Image

It's really an interesting hand for everyone to discuss and learnPosted Image
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#15 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2016-February-12, 03:13

 foobar, on 2016-February-10, 14:38, said:

For those wondering why this made to the Interesting Bridge Hands forum, this is one where the card gods can hand you a royal fix :ph34r::



5-X is untouchable on the layout. At the other table, EW got to play in 4 after P (!!!!) - 1 - P - P - 4 (!!!) - AP, making +1 or +2 depending on the opening lead.


Bridge is a game of probabilities.
what are you aiming at?
That there are unlikely layouts?
I encounter this on almost any tournament I enter.
But catering to the unlikely is loosing Bridge.

Here West has a semi-balanced hand. The odds against that everybody else at the table has a void is extreme even given the bidding.
Even though everybody else does have a void, what matters is which one.
For example given the bidding, it would be several times more likely that East has a spade void than a club void. (Why should they have an 11 card fit in clubs?)

Nothing what is really interesting about this deal

Rainer Herrmann
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#16 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-February-12, 03:17

 rhm, on 2016-February-12, 03:13, said:

Bridge is a game of probabilities.

Maybe not for you Rainer but I suspect many others will find the smother play and squeeze interesting, if not the bidding decision itself.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#17 User is offline   zillahandp 

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Posted 2016-February-12, 08:47

Already sent this but my txtts vanish. Seems simple pass then x not alternatives
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#18 User is offline   creatbid 

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Posted 2016-February-12, 08:56

 rhm, on 2016-February-12, 03:13, said:

Bridge is a game of probabilities.
what are you aiming at?
That there are unlikely layouts?
I encounter this on almost any tournament I enter.
But catering to the unlikely is loosing Bridge.

Here West has a semi-balanced hand. The odds against that everybody else at the table has a void is extreme even given the bidding.
Even though everybody else does have a void, what matters is which one.
For example given the bidding, it would be several times more likely that East has a spade void than a club void. (Why should they have an 11 card fit in clubs?)

Nothing what is really interesting about this deal

Rainer Herrmann


I don't think you usually encountered such kind of board, in which 3 players had a void, unless you like goulash matches. Moreover, not all interesting issues of this board are about voids. Do you know by reasonable defence 5 will never be made?Do you know why the double you voted against 5 scores worse than 5?Do you know this board can product a great slam?For example:http://tinyurl.com/hl75nue

Any board can be interesting when the possible result is far from how you expect in advance. I think you should read this board and this topic with a more humble mind even when you think you are much more experienced than foolbar. He didn't aim at anyone by a not nice way while you seemed to indicate his topic shouldn't be here. Maybe you can ask diana_eva to remove itPosted Image
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#19 User is offline   bigbenvic 

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Posted 2016-February-18, 01:18

Style of partners pre-empts really matters here.

With Partner using a loose style, first seat white V red then I pass and pass again.

Facing a more standard and predictable pre-empt (rule of 2 and 3) I re-double to show I thought 4 was making (2 Aces and the Qh + partners 7 tricks) and probably bid 5 over partners silence.

Would you pass in his seat with a 2740 after partner doubles? I don't know. I think I should be disciplined but there is an argument for a bid - being void in their (assumed) fit, partner's likelihood of a spade trick (barring a ruff from North) and again the chance they might lead a club which gains me back the tempo.

I try to stay passed once I've pre-empted and I'm not sure the reasons to bid are enough to offset that rule. 2 of partners tricks must come from outside hearts so if I push them on it's probably going to be doubled. My main worry is that he'll want a piece of 5 and by bidding I deny him, also neither can make at the 5 level and by bidding I turn a good score bad, worse if they find X.
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