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GIB the torturer tries to steer it from NT with excellent diamonds

#1 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 13:07



This is less a bug than just horrible foretelling. South's 2NT rebid shows 2-3 diamonds. Given that North has AKTx in diamonds, how likely is it that South would be happy bidding 3NT over 3S? Luckily I guessed that 3NT was probably the right contract anyway, but I could easily see people playing a moysian 4S in this auction, and indeed 2 people did end up in spades when they felt they couldn't bid 3NT.
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#2 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 14:06

This is not too obvious, programming-wise.

The explanation of 2N is truncated but my understanding is that does not deny a 4th Spade. There are those to whom missing a 4-4 major suit is a crime worthy of a ticket to Dante's 7th circle of hell. I think that they are wrong in general and certainly would be wrong on this hand, given that the Spades are more waistcoat than suit, combined with such robust Diamonds and HCP to burn. Normally I would expect GIB to eschew such dogmatic doctrine that enslaves the lower echelons of human players.

On another day, however, the Spades could be a bit better, the Diamonds a bit poorer, but Diamonds still adequate to try for 3N in the absence of a Spade fit, while Spades would be preferred with an 8 card fit. How should such a hand be bid? Should South blindly bid 3N when lacking an 8 card major fit regardless of the quality of guard in the 4th suit? I don't have the answer. What would 3D mean over 2N? What about 3C is that just a rescue?
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

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#3 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 15:54

I think where your playing a system which will bypass a 4-card suit to bid 2N (or even 1N) having responder showing 4 is a necessary evil.
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#4 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 16:20

View Post1eyedjack, on 2016-February-03, 14:06, said:

What would 3D mean over 2N? What about 3C is that just a rescue?


3D=NMF (supposedly promising 5+H), 3C is forcing (4+C, 4+H, 7+total points).

Just in case it wasn't clear, I don't have a problem with the meaning of 3S, it's the choice of using it here I have the problem with.
Wayne Somerville
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#5 User is offline   cloa513 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 16:46

View Postmanudude03, on 2016-February-03, 13:07, said:



This is less a bug than just horrible foretelling. South's 2NT rebid shows 2-3 diamonds. Given that North has AKTx in diamonds, how likely is it that South would be happy bidding 3NT over 3S? Luckily I guessed that 3NT was probably the right contract anyway, but I could easily see people playing a moysian 4S in this auction, and indeed 2 people did end up in spades when they felt they couldn't bid 3NT.

To me that's 2NT opener- it worth that upgrade.
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#6 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2016-February-04, 00:03

View Postcloa513, on 2016-February-03, 16:46, said:

To me that's 2NT opener- it worth that upgrade.

Your prerogative of course. Upgrading by 1 HCP is fashionable. By 2 not so much. And it does not address the merits of North's 3S on the actual auction.

Nor is the auction particularly comfortable after a "slam-killer" 2N opener. Presumably North will subside in 3N after Stayman reveals no major fit, which is fortunately the right spot this time. And yet give South something like

S:AKx
H:AKJ
D:Qxxx
C:Axx

and 6D is the spot.

No doubt this can be found by a splinter, the price being a commitment to 4N. On a bad day North committing to 4N opposite a South with a penchant for upgrading his 2N openers by 2 HCP may have its own downsides (with the emphasis on "down").

I may be being unfair, but it is my observation that upgrading opener is often your primary solution. Not saying that it is never right, but the frequency seems a little unbalanced. Examples with which I would disagree being

http://tinyurl.com/znx8kks

and

http://tinyurl.com/gq42evo

It may be that strategies against GIB reward it more than against humans.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#7 User is offline   cloa513 

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Posted 2016-February-07, 18:25

View Post1eyedjack, on 2016-February-04, 00:03, said:

Your prerogative of course. Upgrading by 1 HCP is fashionable. By 2 not so much. And it does not address the merits of North's 3S on the actual auction.

Nor is the auction particularly comfortable after a "slam-killer" 2N opener. Presumably North will subside in 3N after Stayman reveals no major fit, which is fortunately the right spot this time. And yet give South something like

S:AKx
H:AKJ
D:Qxxx
C:Axx

and 6D is the spot.

No doubt this can be found by a splinter, the price being a commitment to 4N. On a bad day North committing to 4N opposite a South with a penchant for upgrading his 2N openers by 2 HCP may have its own downsides (with the emphasis on "down").

I may be being unfair, but it is my observation that upgrading opener is often your primary solution. Not saying that it is never right, but the frequency seems a little unbalanced. Examples with which I would disagree being

http://tinyurl.com/znx8kks

and

http://tinyurl.com/gq42evo

It may be that strategies against GIB reward it more than against humans.


The 2NT includes the possibility of 4S. There is no requirement for all four suits to be covered to play in 3NT- 3,2 diamonds is a reasonable cover- hope for only a 4-4 break and no cashing loser. I also think that some 15 HCP NT deserve to be downgraded if its all aces and kings or broken honours.
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#8 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2016-February-09, 15:23

I would have bid the hand just as GIB did with most human partners. I like the "anti-reverse" here with 3S showing 4-4. It would be less effective to use NMF or Checkback with that shape, since if opener showed 3 Hearts it would usually only help the opponents.

GIB does freely bypass 4 Spades to bid 2NT with the appropriate HCP, I also approve.

I can see Jack's point, but this is a fine judgment area where we really can't expect GIB to try to maneuver.
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