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Pass or pull?

Poll: Pass or pull? (21 member(s) have cast votes)

What's your call?

  1. Pass (18 votes [85.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 85.71%

  2. 4C (1 votes [4.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.76%

  3. 4H (2 votes [9.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

  4. 5C (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2016-February-02, 09:21



MP scoring (does that make a difference?). What do you do now?
The "4 is a transfer to 4" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#2 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2016-February-02, 09:52

I'll pass, for many reasons. I have an unexpected source of tricks, and we want the spade lead around to partner. We could easily have nine cashers with 5 going down, or outscore it when it makes. Jx may be very useful.

In addition if a 4th suit bid is available here, its non use makes a heart fit unlikely.
Life is long and beautiful, if bad things happen, good things will follow.
-gwnn
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#3 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2016-February-02, 13:20

I would pass, I think if partner had a third heart or a shaky spade stop they should take it slower by for example bidding fourth suit forcing. Maybe once in a while we might miss a club slam if partner has totally the right cards but it seems like too distant a possibility to worry about.
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#4 User is offline   jallerton 

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Posted 2016-February-02, 16:18

Partner should have (at least) a double spade stop here when there was plenty of room to express doubt.

Unlike the previous posters, I think it is quite possible for partner to hold 3 hearts. However, even if he does hold 3 hearts, it's far from clear that we want to make that suit as trumps. As long as the club suit runs, the best use for those hearts will be as losers to discard on pointed suits.
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#5 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2016-February-02, 16:19

View Postjallerton, on 2016-February-02, 16:18, said:

Partner should have (at least) a double spade stop here when there was plenty of room to express doubt.

Unlike the previous posters, I think it is quite possible for partner to hold 3 hearts. However, even if he does hold 3 hearts, it's far from clear that we want to make that suit as trumps. As long as the club suit runs, the best use for those hearts will be as losers to discard on pointed suits.


clearly you're a far better player than me, but i can't really see what hand partner can have where he has 3 hearts yet is prepared to leap all the way to 3n despite having a ton of forcing bids available?
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2016-February-02, 16:57

View Posteagles123, on 2016-February-02, 16:19, said:

clearly you're a far better player than me, but i can't really see what hand partner can have where he has 3 hearts yet is prepared to leap all the way to 3n despite having a ton of forcing bids available?


QJ10x
KQ10
AQxxx
x

3N is not pretty on a club lead, 4 a lot easier although in practice they will lead a spade against 3N.
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#7 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2016-February-02, 20:38

I pass.

Partner has made a unilateral decision and the onus is on him/her. Partner doesn't have much information about opener's hand except that it holds at least 3 and 4 . The opening hand could be anything from the hand held to a very flat 3-4-3-3 hand.

But opener knows even less about responder's hand. So any action that opener takes is a complete shot in the dark.

So it becomes a partnership trust situation. Opener should trust that responder had a good reason for taking control and setting the final contract.

If 3 NT doesn't work out and responder wants to suggest that opener should have taken some action, then there'll be a discussion about why responder jumped to 3 NT in the first place. That's a better discussion to have than trying to justify taking an action over 3 NT when 3 NT is the last makeable contract.
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#8 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2016-February-02, 23:21

I gotz zix trickz!
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
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#9 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 05:15

I'd pass, nothing to say my hand and let opp guess what the best lead is, even partner might hold a mini hand, 3nt would be a hopeful contract, good luck to partner.
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#10 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 05:25

Note that you never change pd's final decision, if you really do it, unlucky it would show you don't respect your partner, also shows you often really don't believe your partner !
No matter the result is good or bad, you would better have to accept it.
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#11 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 05:33

View Postlycier, on 2016-February-03, 05:25, said:

Note that you never change pd's final decision, if you really do it, unlucky it would show you don't respect your partner, also shows you often really don't believe your partner !
No matter the result is good or bad, you would better have to accept it.

But partner has not made a final decision. You have not described you hand very accurately (1 is 11-18 points, you could have very long clubs). So partner does not have enough information to make a decision.

Partner has shown a balanced 12-15 or such and now you know enough to be able to make the final decision by passing 3NT.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#12 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 06:24

View PostCyberyeti, on 2016-February-02, 16:57, said:

QJ10x
KQ10
AQxxx
x

3N is not pretty on a club lead, 4 a lot easier although in practice they will lead a spade against 3N.


I think its lazy to just bid 3n on this hand - if we fsf and partner denies 5 hearts then we can just bid 3n anyway, and what if pard is like 1435 or something and we have a diamond slam
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#13 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 07:58

View Postrmnka447, on 2016-February-02, 20:38, said:

Partner doesn't have much information about opener's hand except that it holds at least 3 and 4 . The opening hand could be anything from the hand held to a very flat 3-4-3-3 hand.

This is very much a matter of agreement. The majority of players I know rebid NT with 3 clubs so that the 1 rebid shows real clubs and an unbalanced hand. Up-the-line is certainly possible (the OP did not mention it either way) but it is wrong to assume that and my guess would be that Jinksy plays it the other way.

Note also that, as Helene points out, partner has not made a unilateral decision but rather a descriptive bid. They have very good spades, no interest in a heart fit and have shown their strength fairly precisely. Certainly it is expected that 3NT will be the most common contract at this point but 3NT is absolutely not a sign off. With a different hand Opener would bid on, just not with this one.
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#14 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2016-February-03, 08:48

View Posthelene_t, on 2016-February-03, 05:33, said:

But partner has not made a final decision. You have not described you hand very accurately (1 is 11-18 points, you could have very long clubs). So partner does not have enough information to make a decision.

Partner has shown a balanced 12-15 or such and now you know enough to be able to make the final decision by passing 3NT.



As a my partner's partner, I would do what my partner feels good, and above all, I would listen to my partner's heart. 3NT gives expression to the partner aspirations for final contract.

3NT says " partner, I would hold mini hand or even invitational hand, I think 3nt could be a best playable contract,only. Please don't be easy to change the partner's final decision especially while you would hold 11-13hcp without extra values. This is a partnering law. Please never give more information to the opponents.and let opps guess, good luck to us."

Isn't this the partner aspirations?
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