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12-14 NT opens with transfer walsh

#1 User is offline   OBSugar 

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Posted 2016-January-22, 09:37

In the middle of research, have read several great threads here and BW. But, most treatments involve a weak NT rebid and we love our 12-14 1NT open. We have Gazzilli over diamonds, Heart and Spade opens. I have the Goetze article. So, that said, can anyone point me to a treatment for transfer Walsh in which 1NT is weak? Or, make suggestions. Thanks.
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#2 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2016-January-22, 10:47

There's one relevant thread in the weak NT section of my systems index.

http://bridge.mgoetze.net/bbf.html
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#3 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2016-January-22, 11:42

If 1D is truly unbalanced I'd play transfer rebids by opener so no need for Gazilli.

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#4 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2016-January-22, 11:49

Non-expert here. I play 5cM weak NT, our system over 1C is a homebrewed 1D=4+H, 1H=4+S, 1S=INV+ with diamonds or a pile of rubbish (5-9 "dustbin 1NT" response type hand) and 1NT = 5-9 5+ diamonds. After 1R transfer, opener should bid NT with any balanced hand even with 3-card support (but support the major to the appropriate level with 4-card support). We use transfer completion = 3M 5C unbal, F1, but I think there might be a better option for it.

For NT rebids you can either play 1NT = 15-19 with a suitable checkback and 2NT = BAL, 4 card support, 16+ (jacoby style), or 1NT 15-17 and 2NT 18-19.

Our 1C covers NAT, BAL 15-19, and all 4441s except a singleton spade. With a BAL hand and a 5-card other suit we open the suit and rebid in NT (rather than the Auken/Welland approach of opening 1C on all BAL hands not in range).

ahydra
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#5 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2016-January-23, 06:32

While I play twalsh combined with a 15/16 1NT open, if you are committed to a weak 1NT then there is no reason why you should not play twalsh with that. Just play exactly the same 1, but swapping your "weakest strength" rebids which in my case is 12-14 with your 15/16 or 15-17.

Your biggest decisions are what to do over a "1 red" reply, and what the 1 and 1NT replies mean, and these are exactly the same decisions whatever the strength of the 1NT open. If you (like me) favour a 1 reply as a relay that may include minor hands, then you also have the decision of what use you assign to the 2 and 2 replies.

Transfer walsh is a big benefit whether you play weak or strong NT. In my view it works even better with an "unbalanced diamond", where a 1 open shows a 6 card diamond suit, or a hand that has a singleton or void outside diamonds. This not only helps you when you open 1 (because you are now guaranteed to have at least 2 cards in each major), but also gives rise to more descriptive rebids when you do open 1.
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#6 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2016-January-23, 07:43

I got inspired and tried to create a structure. There are some novel ideas, perhaps the most interesting is using 1C--1red; 1S as Gazzilli. I started writing it down right here on the forum, but got carried away and put together a pdf instead: http://snortingmarad...lub_weak_nt.pdf
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#7 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2016-January-23, 07:51

View PostfromageGB, on 2016-January-23, 06:32, said:

Transfer walsh is a big benefit whether you play weak or strong NT. In my view it works even better with an "unbalanced diamond", where a 1 open shows a 6 card diamond suit, or a hand that has a singleton or void outside diamonds. This not only helps you when you open 1 (because you are now guaranteed to have at least 2 cards in each major), but also gives rise to more descriptive rebids when you do open 1.


I do not quite understand. Can 1D be less than 4 if holding a singleton major? Like (14)-2-6 or (14)-3-5 or (0-4)-2-7?
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#8 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2016-January-24, 04:53

View PostKungsgeten, on 2016-January-23, 07:51, said:

I do not quite understand. Can 1D be less than 4 if holding a singleton major? Like (14)-2-6 or (14)-3-5 or (0-4)-2-7?

The way I play it, yes (by the definition I gave for the 1 open), but not on all those hands. I did not say that my definition of a 1 open is that you have "6 clubs, or cannot open 1". Hands 1 and 3 therefore open 1. On these, if responder shows your major you are delighted of course, and if not, and he shows hearts while your major is spades, the bidding is 1 1! 1 which is natural in a 4xx6+ shape. If he shows spades, and your major is hearts, the bidding is 1 1! 2, which is 6+ clubs and not strong enough for 3. The 1 reply denies 4 hearts, because 1NT would be the reply to show a {54}xx hand, and 2 the reply for 55xx or longer.

Your hand 2 will open 1 and this is of course the only shape where it will not have 4 diamonds. Responder can support diamonds as if it were 4, as it will be a huge majority of the time, and the singleton helps with almost certain ruffs in the short trump hand. The same logic applies in the majors - if responder has a 4 card major, and opener's shape is 3145, we treat 3 card support just like 4, because in practice the short trump hand has compensating ruffs. Of course, if responder is 44xx and opener is {43}51, we have a mechanism that allows responder to show 44 to allow opener to pick the 4 card major to play in 2M.

So the answer is yes, and it works very well if you are happy with the idea of 3 card major support with a singleton or void outside. When you have that shape, NT is not normally a good idea anyway, and of course there is nothing to stop responder having more than 4; with unbalanced hands around he normally does.
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#9 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2016-January-24, 05:27

View PostKungsgeten, on 2016-January-23, 07:43, said:

I got inspired and tried to create a structure. There are some novel ideas, perhaps the most interesting is using 1C--1red; 1S as Gazzilli. I started writing it down right here on the forum, but got carried away and put together a pdf instead: http://snortingmarad...lub_weak_nt.pdf

Very impressive, comprehensive, and conveys a huge amount of detail about the hands. If you like a weak NT, and you have the memory, then this could be the way to go. Unfortunately I'm equipped with a mere 64K as opposed to your 8MB :(
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