[FARMERBOY]

In the following auction 1S-PASS-2H-3C(overcall) how does opener do a game forcing bid without using too much bidding space.
Opener has 17pts and seven spades.
Any comments would be appreciated.

[Zelandakh]

Hello Farmerboy and welcome to the BBO forums. The second sentence of the SAYC booklet on Competitive Bidding says: "Bids mean the same things they meant without the intervening bid." So the simple answer is that you probably make the same call as you would have done without the overcall, although you have an additional option in bidding RHO's suit to show "values for game forcing hand without clear direction".

[Vampyr]

 Zelandakh, on 2016-January-14, 10:40, said:

Hello Farmerboy and welcome to the BBO forums. The second sentence of the SAYC booklet on Competitive Bidding says: "Bids mean the same things they meant without the intervening bid." So the simple answer is that you probably make the same call as you would have done without the overcall, although you have an additional option in bidding RHO's suit to show "values for game forcing hand without clear direction".

That second sentence is kind of poor, as here 3♠ might be competitive with long spades and a minimum.

In this case bidding RHO's suit gets you a little high! So bidding 3♦ is probably best; double might be an idea if your hand is less shapely.

[FARMERBOY]

Thank you for the quick reply. The bidding continued with my partner bidding 4 of opponents suit ie. 4C. I took it to be a cue bid supportin hearts. The spade slam was never found.
We did think that 3D would have been a better bid without taking up too much bidding space.

[Zelandakh]

SAYC is a simple system, not a good one. It might be that it is better to play 3♠ competitively and/or 4♣ as showing a fit but that is not part of the system as written.

[billw55]

Welcome to the forums. Let me offer a tip: when asking what people would bid, you should present the full hand. Without that, there are too many things I don't know:

how good are my spades?
do I have heart support?
do I have shortness?
do I have a diamond suit?
do I have a club stopper?
what is the vulnerability?
what is the form of scoring?

[lycier]

Hello,welcome to BBF.
In simple terms, playing 2/1, never standard american.

[zillahandp]

Billw is spot on, you must give all the facts otherwise we are guessing not guiding. My guess would be, from the sparse info, bid four spades, clearly any heart fit or spade solidity could make this a big underbid when 3d or 4c would come into consideration. SAYC like standard acol is a Ford competing with Ferraris and Mclarens

[zillahandp]

By the way bad drivers can crash any car!

[Caitlynne]

In SAYC, the 2H bid by Responder shows at least game invitational values. Any free bid by Opener after the overcall by Advancer shows more than minimum values and so it is forcing to game. (Invitiational or better plus extra values opening bid = game)

That is, 3S by Opener is sufficient to show extra length with the assurance that Opener will get another chance to bid.

[zillahandp]

Eh 1s, 2h is invitational oh dear never knew that what bid is not then?

[Zelandakh]

 zillahandp, on 2016-January-16, 11:56, said:

Eh 1s, 2h is invitational oh dear never knew that what bid is not then?

In 2/1 it is game forcing. In my system it is weak and not forcing. In Stone Age Acol it is (8)9+. In some other methods it shows a spade raise. So there are plenty of alternative possibilities. I took the comment to be emphasising the difference from a 2/1 auction.