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Atb - naturalish sequence in Fantunes leading to missed slam

Poll: Atb - naturalish sequence in Fantunes leading to missed slam (9 member(s) have cast votes)

Who's to blame and why?

  1. N should have read S for enough Ds to upgrade (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. S should have done something to show the AD (5 votes [55.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 55.56%

  3. No blame (1 votes [11.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  4. Other (3 votes [33.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

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#1 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2016-January-03, 11:23



N's GF nominally showed 10+ points.

IMPs. Is there a way to find the slam? We thought it revolved around how likely S was to bid like this without stiff A or possibly a fake 3 bid based on extra values but no better bid.
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#2 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2016-January-03, 11:32

This is silly. South trying to stop on a dime with exactly 32 if partner has only 10 is silly. Not being creative enough to try 4D is just hopeless.
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#3 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2016-January-03, 11:49

View PostJinksy, on 2016-January-03, 11:23, said:

N's GF nominally showed 10+ points.

Presumably N likes to bend this often, because opposite 10+ South clearly has a slam force.

Also, have you given up your hatred of matchpoints? It's the only possible explanation for North trying 3NT, because he has an obvious 5 bid at several points of the bidding including that one.
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#4 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2016-January-03, 12:06

why isn't 3h just boring old 4th suit forcing?

anyway south needs an abacus. 22 + 10+ = slam
north shouldn't want to play Nts with a 7 card suit and extra shape.
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#5 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2016-January-03, 14:42

I like 4D over 3N. Now North can count likely 7 diamond winners instead of 1 or even zero.
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#6 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2016-January-03, 19:33

View Postkenrexford, on 2016-January-03, 11:32, said:

Not being creative enough to try 4D is just hopeless.

I'm not sure South needs to be creative in order to that. I mean, he has already denied doubleton (or primary) support in such a strong hand by not raising 3 to 4, so by bidding 3 first he may now be showing only singleton (or secondary) support.
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#7 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2016-January-04, 04:03

View Postwank, on 2016-January-03, 12:06, said:

why isn't 3h just boring old 4th suit forcing?


It is, but we normally wouldn't bid it without something in the suit in a GFing auction, on the theory that if you don't have any values in it, you probably have a more descriptive bid elsewhere.
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#8 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2016-January-05, 09:29

Time to out myself as South.

View Postnullve, on 2016-January-03, 19:33, said:

I'm not sure South needs to be creative in order to that. I mean, he has already denied doubleton (or primary) support in such a strong hand by not raising 3 to 4


Maybe it should show that, but I prefer not to raise directly unless there's no other option. I usually find it more helpful to be able to bid out values below 3N, and to be able to use a bid of the minor at the 4 level as something keycard-related, which is only possible when the surrounding bids can't be natural (ie typically after a slower sequence). So to me, bidding 4 (or any other 4-bid) after P's 3N would still have shown decent secondary diamond support - Hx or conceivably xxx.

I also don't agree with the '22 + 10 = slam' comments. We have a horrible misfit, so I expect these hands to play substantially worse than 22 balanced opposite 10 balanced, and if P has nothing extra I really don't expect to miss much. Give him xx Axxx KQxxxx x and I think he'd have bid the same (would anyone not GF in normal 2/1 with that hand plus an abstract king?), but now slam is a disaster. It doesn't become much nicer if we throw in the Q or Q.
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#9 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2016-January-05, 10:46

View PostJinksy, on 2016-January-05, 09:29, said:

I also don't agree with the '22 + 10 = slam' comments. We have a horrible misfit, so I expect these hands to play substantially worse than 22 balanced opposite 10 balanced

I kind of doubt that... maybe you should sim it. :P

Generally speaking, a 5-card suit opposite a doubleton has more trick-taking potential than a 4-card suit opposite three.
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#10 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2016-January-05, 11:13

View PostJinksy, on 2016-January-05, 09:29, said:

It doesn't become much nicer if we throw in the Q or Q.


eh? 6d is huge opposite that hand with the qc or qh. you just need a 42 trump break or better.

no i wouldn't gf on axxx kqxxxx opposite a 14+ opening bid.
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