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We'll always have Paris

#1 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2015-December-19, 21:34

From David Roberts' The conceptual breakthrough behind the Paris climate treaty:

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The Paris climate treaty is, in Joe Biden's immortal phrase, "a big f**king deal." It is less a solution to the problem of climate change — as everyone has already pointed out, it's only the beginning — than a conceptual breakthrough, a shift in the way the world's countries approach their common task.

That core breakthrough has gotten somewhat lost in all the coverage of the details. So I'd like to pull back the lens a bit and look at the big picture, what Paris means in the larger arc of climate action.

What a global climate treaty can do, and Paris does

Broadly speaking, it can offer two things: transparency and moral suasion.

It can aggregate the voluntary national commitments into a common database and measure them by common metrics, so that they can be fairly compared. It can make sure each nation's progress is verified and made public. If done well, transparency can ensure that everyone is clear on who has made what commitments and whose commitments are and aren't being met.

Alongside transparency, a treaty can bring to bear the weight of shared principles and goals: to help poorer countries, to drive emissions to net zero by mid-century, and to limit temperature rise to "well below 2C." It can put nations on record behind not only specific policies but a promise to regularly review and strengthen those policies. And it can put them on record behind specific contributions to a fund to assist poor and low-lying nations.

That's the architecture of the Paris deal.

Ultimately, it relies on the only real weapons in the UNFCCC's arsenal: perception and peer pressure. The bet is that nations will behave differently when a) no one is telling them what to do, but b) everyone is watching. Social scientists know that for individuals, making goals public is one of the most effective ways of ensuring they're met. Perhaps the same is true of nations.

If the last two years are any indication, peer pressure works pretty well. After China and the US struck a bilateral deal, other countries had no political cover left for delay; virtually every one came to Paris with real commitments in hand.

By all accounts, Paris was a smoother and more congenial experience than previous climate talks, with fewer leaks, less sniping, and more flexibility. India, previously a determined foot-dragger, has emerged as a constructive partner and potential solar pioneer. Canada came out of nowhere supporting a 1.5 degree target. Hell, even Venezuela submitted an INDC. It was, for the first time in a long time, a unanimous and forward-looking agreement, an architecture that showed signs of being durable and effective over decades to come.

There's a real sense that the world has crested the hill; action is now rolling on, unstoppable. And as Michael Levi notes, that optimism, the impression of inevitability, may be the most important outcome of Paris.

It all comes back to nations

Nonetheless, nations remain primary. All the talk about whether the Paris treaty will "work" somewhat misses that point.

The UNFCCC has always been, and remains, subject to the vicissitudes of national politics. The main reasons nations have finally started coming together on climate have less to do with international negotiations than with the changing economics of energy, the surge in public interest, and the rising tide of global activism.

And the nascent unity could easily falter. If internal tensions and austerity weaken the EU's commitment; if India's massive solar push goes bust; if demographics or politics change the incentives of Chinese leaders; above all, if the climate denialists in the Republican Party gain control of the White House — any of these national developments could delay or derail cooperative global action on climate. And there's little a UN treaty can do to prevent them.

What the Paris architecture can do is rationalize a process that is already underway and, at the margins, accelerate it. It can clarify shared aspirations, send clear market signals, and document ongoing progress, fostering a positive feedback cycle of ambition. It can serve as a reminder that the family of nations owes its poorest members a helping hand, and that current commitments fall far short of just or wise.

But it cannot impose or engineer a global energy transition. It is a reflection of national politics more than a driver. The architecture will grow stronger when and if countries become comfortable and confident on the path toward decarbonization. Whether that happens depends on forces far larger than the UN.

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#2 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2015-December-19, 22:21

DECARBONISATION

Results in what gains versus the associated losses to health, welfare and economic well-being?

p.s. Cancun, Joburg, Warsaw, Copenhagen etc. etc.

Bjorn Lomborg has a realistic take on the relative worth of any CO2 related treaty.

Anyone remember the Montreal protocol and the billions spent to save the ozone layer by de-cfc'ing? How has that worked out?
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#3 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2015-December-20, 04:00

 Al_U_Card, on 2015-December-19, 22:21, said:

Anyone remember the Montreal protocol and the billions spent to save the ozone layer by de-cfc'ing? How has that worked out?

Huh?!?

We de-CFC'd, and the ozone layer started to get better.

Same when it came to acid rain: We de-NOx'd and the acid rain decreased.

Coming to think of it, these environmental treaties have been more effective than many other treaties.

Rik
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#4 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2015-December-20, 13:20

 Trinidad, on 2015-December-20, 04:00, said:

Huh?!?

We de-CFC'd, and the ozone layer started to get better.

Same when it came to acid rain: We de-NOx'd and the acid rain decreased.

Coming to think of it, these environmental treaties have been more effective than many other treaties.

Rik

Rather, the ozone "hole" continued on its cycle of increasing and decreasing based on climatic conditions and only the computer models of the time showed catastrophic depletion unless the CFC menace was curtailed (sound familiar?).
I am all for real pollution abatement and the reduction of NOx from car exhausts did indeed reduce photochemical smog in LA and other large cities. Similar abatement of SOx from metal smelters curtailed acidic rains that had caused considerable deforestation downwind.
All that treaties and protocols like Montreal and Kyoto (and perhaps Paris...) managed to do was cost a lot and employ a host of bureaucrats. Fixing the perceived "problem" was a secondary concern, if results are to be taken into consideration.
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#5 User is offline   Aberlour10 

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Posted 2015-December-20, 14:40

Paper does not blush,

I cant imagine how all these high hopes of Paris will be realized in the upcoming era of the cheap oil.

I am not very deep in the issue of the climate change, but as I read the new polish goverment ( who sets all in of coal) was full satisfied with this paper >>> my alarm bells rang. No real controls and penalties can be expected, thats the main problem.I think....... so what....paper does not blush.
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#6 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2015-December-23, 09:47

Excerpt from Microsoft Leads Movement to Offset Emissions With Internal Carbon Tax

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When Microsoft business unit managers calculate their profits or losses each quarter, they consider more than just sales and expenses. They also factor in the price of carbon.

Even more radically, the business units are charged an internal tax by Microsoft based on their energy usage. The money goes into a common fund that invests in environmental sustainability projects.

The company’s program is at the forefront of a fast-growing effort called carbon pricing. This year, 437 companies are calculating an internal price on carbon, up sharply from 150 last year, according to a new report by CDP, a nonprofit group that monitors carbon disclosures for companies.

437 companies in 2015 up from 150 in 2014? Looks like this is starting to get real.
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#7 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2015-December-23, 15:43

We'll have it until the Polar bears come to get us!

Lions and tigers and (polar) bears!

Because perhaps they have been taking swimming lessons? rofl
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#8 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2016-January-01, 16:06

It is clear that the "understanding" reached in Paris is non-binding and unenforceable BUT it serves as a guideline and an incentive to reduce CO2 emissions (to the extent that they will impact energy security as well as global temps...) and to "compensate" non-emitters as well as not put any limits on the expected big emitters (China et al) over the next century. Since the overall effect is likely less than one sigma of the "natural" variation in global temperatures, it is unlikely that the Senate would accept such draconian measures and their economic/health effect on the peoples of the developed and developing world.

We may "have" Paris for a lot longer than would be wise...
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#9 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2016-January-29, 15:11

Politics does not have the power to stop CO2 emissions. It's a long term incentive but as we all know, short term incentives beat long term incentives. Please find the US presidential candidate who proposes $2 tax per gallon gas to give people the incentive to buy more low-CO2 cars. In Germany it's the same: the so-called "Energiewende" calls to shut down low-CO2 plants like nuclear plants and has rendered the most efficient gas-powered plant in Irsching uneconomical. Electric and Hybrid cars are being avoided by allowing the manufacturers to cheat on emission tests. No, the government states that it wants to reduce CO2 but it won't and in 10 years it will be very sorry that it didn't' that reach its goals...

Emerging countries will say "we WANT to reduce CO2 but we are still way below US and Europe and errr... It's the economy, stupid!"

Oil prices are at a 20+ year low, everyone thinks "use it or lose it". So the Paris agreement was a success as a symbol of awareness but it won't change the FACT that humanity will irreversibly mess up the climate.
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#10 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2016-January-30, 10:44

And what is the factual (if not irreversible) change caused by man? Can you quantify it in terms of degrees C global temperature increase per ppm of [CO2]? Just so we know what we are dealing with...
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#11 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2016-January-30, 11:31

 Gerben42, on 2016-January-29, 15:11, said:

Please find the US presidential candidate who proposes $2 tax per gallon gas to give people the incentive to buy more low-CO2 cars.


You find him/her, I'll vote for him/her. If not $2, at least $1.

And it is not only the environment. I am not sure who is playing what games with the oil prices but I think it would be naive to think it is just our ongoing good fortune that gas is now $1.70 a gallon and falling.
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#12 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2016-January-30, 18:19

I've read about a carbon pricing scheme proposed by kenberg's Congressman (I think) Chris Van Hollen which my Congressman, Don Beyer, co-sponsored; an alternative scheme proposed by the Citizens' Climate Lobby; and a cap and trade system currently operating in 13 states, including Ken's state of Maryland, which my state (Virginia) is evaluating, that appears to be providing some carbon reduction benefits and lower prices to consumers.

Of these, the Citizen's Climate Lobby proposal calls for a $15 fee per metric ton of CO2 equivalent emissions in the first year plus a minimum increase of $10 per ton thereafter which, I think works out to $0.13/gallon in year 1 and $0.94/gallon in year 10.

According to Scientific American, Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley (also from Maryland) both support some form of carbon pricing scheme whereas Hillary Clinton does not. However, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), who is a leader on this issue, says in the SA story that the proposals of all 3 dems are equivalent in terms of their net effect on carbon reduction.

But no, nobody's talking about anything close to a $1 or $2 per gallon tax on gas this decade.
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#13 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2016-February-07, 09:17

From Carolyn Lochhead's story last week at governing.com:

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President Obama will propose a $10-per-barrel tax on oil in next year's budget to modernize the U.S. transportation system, using the fossil fuels tax to pay for a transition to clean energy, administration officials said Thursday.

National Economic Council Director Jeff Zients said Obama's overall proposal reflects his promise to "tackle problems that have been simmering for decades," in this case, chronic transportation underinvestment that loads businesses with higher freight expenses and costs Americans 7 billion hours in wasted time as they sit in cars and trucks snarled in traffic. Zients called these costs a hidden $160 billion annual tax, $960 for each commuter, that is harming U.S. competitiveness.

The $10-per-barrel fee on oil, levied on imports but not exports, represents a limited version of a carbon tax that would discourage greenhouse gas emissions and encourage cleaner fuels. The fee, to be paid by oil companies, would be much broader than the current gasoline tax paid by drivers. Reluctance by both parties in Congress to raise the gas tax has led to chronic funding shortfalls for highways and transit.

The plan calls for big new investments in rail and other non-car options for urban commuters, technologies to support driverless cars, and regional refueling systems for low-carbon vehicles.

Over five years, the Obama plan would boost investment by 50 percent over the bipartisan transportation bill that Congress passed last year after 36 short-term extensions.

Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx said the plan would change federal funding programs by rewarding states that cut carbon pollution from transportation, a provision that would aid California disproportionately since the state has more electric vehicles than the other 49 states combined. The program would also reward such things as better land-use planning and investments in transit.

Foxx called the proposal a "bold new plan that will create a clean transportation system and increase overall investment in ways that give American communities more climate friendly choices."


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A leading California Republican immediately said the plan, to be included in Obama's final budget proposal Tuesday, will go nowhere in Congress.

Carry on.
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#14 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-February-15, 10:22

A huge tax hike on imports in any sector always sounds like protectionism. If the aim is cleaner energy then it could just as easily be applied to American oil! The truth is probably that this $10 is being put out there to make the real figure seem more reasonable and therefore politically manageable.
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#15 User is offline   Flem72 

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Posted 2016-February-15, 11:06

We gonna buy gas stoves for the millions in SE Asia, India and China who still heat and cook, open air, with wood and coal?

Make alternatives available, cheer on the private companies who effect real initiatives, but don't tell people they have to use them or else, don't tax oil-based fuels out of existence and don't create any more Solydras.

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#16 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2016-February-15, 13:09

The World Health Organization is also against coal and wood use for home heating and cooking.

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The main reason for concern from residential heating using wood and coal is the effect it has on ambient air pollution and health. The types of fuel used for residential heating are an important determinant of both outdoor and indoor air quality in many countries.

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#17 User is online   blackshoe 

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Posted 2016-February-16, 19:08

Yeah, kerosene is much healthier. :blink:
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#18 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2016-February-17, 09:15

 blackshoe, on 2016-February-16, 19:08, said:

Yeah, kerosene is much healthier. :blink:


Obviously, then, the World Health Organization is not promoting kerosene. What they are promoting is in the linked article.
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#19 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2016-February-17, 09:55

 Winstonm, on 2016-February-17, 09:15, said:

Obviously, then, the World Health Organization is not promoting kerosene. What they are promoting is in the linked article.

The only mentions where kerosene is discussed specifically are (bold face mine):

The pdf blackshoe didnt open but thought it would be fun to comment on said:

Recommendations pertinent to household space heating include:
(snip)
-discouraging household combustion of kerosene since there is strong evidence that heating with kerosene leads to indoor concentrations of PM 2.5 , nitrogen dioxide (NO2) and sulfur dioxide (SO2) that exceed WHO guidelines, and household use of kerosene also poses burn and poisoning hazards;

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#20 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2016-February-17, 15:44

 gwnn, on 2016-February-17, 09:55, said:

The only mentions where kerosene is discussed specifically are (bold face mine):


In addition, the report also describes their recommended form of home heating: From "Executive Summary"(emphasis added):

Quote

Measures are available to reduce emissions of solid fuels for residential heating in most places. Encouraging fuel switching (away from coal and other solid fuels) and use of more efficient heating technologies (such as certified fireplaces or pellet stoves) can reduce the emissions from residential wood and coal heating devices.

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