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4 Spades Cold and Unmaking No one, not even me, found the line

#1 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2015-November-30, 12:45

IMPs, BBO Robot Tournament

West takes 2 Diamonds and continues with a third, ruffed by S.


Plan the play.
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#2 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-November-30, 13:14

View Postbiggerclub, on 2015-November-30, 12:45, said:


LHO takes 2 Diamonds and continues with a third, ruffed by S. .IMPs, BBO Robot Tournament. Plan the play.
My guess: After ruffing the 3rd , cross to A and run T (LHO shows out). Finesse Q (wins). Lead another , covering RHO's card. Cash A, JA, Lead a card from dummy, couping RHO if he is 5233. If RHO covers T, you might make an overtrick.
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#3 User is offline   kontoleon 

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Posted 2015-November-30, 20:02

The logical goal is 4s here. (with no beat from opponent)
Cross (A or K) then run 10 K if fail then i try the finess H(j or Q). if fails both lose. if at least one works win. (if the first Finess works you may go from 4 S).
in ANY case if one finess works here you should go back on s from avoid the ruff.
But if the s is 4-1 you lose anyway one more s. in this case i cross the back with C and i play the As ,then onother s and so fur i had one more on my hand. Then i take the next trick (by ruff on D, by Qc or if East try H by finess try). This plan works
Anyway you can watch and the GIB. from your hand...

Ok this is my thinking line. On 5-0 s is no hope, on 3-2 is try win one finess. on 4-1? i dont really now if is the correct plan
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#4 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2015-December-01, 07:59

View Postnige1, on 2015-November-30, 13:14, said:


(LHO shows out)


s were actually 4-1 with the K onside. So, ruff the 3rd , cross to the A, lead the T, winning. Lead a second , putting in the Q and LHO shows out. Now you can afford to lose a , but you need to take one more shortening ruff in hand and get back with dummy on lead at trick 12.

So A and a , losing to LHO. Ruff (or overruff) the return and go back to dummy in to coup RHO. If LHO leads when in with the K, you will be glad that you played A and another. If you use a to enter dummy and take the losing finesse in s, LHO will return a , and leave you short of an entry to be in dummy at trick 12 after taking the necessary shortening ruff.

I saw the line in the play, but rejected it for some odd reason as too speculative, fearing I was falling prey to FPS (fancy play syndrome). So did everyone else who even considered it, I guess.
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#5 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-December-01, 10:09

View Postbiggerclub, on 2015-December-01, 07:59, said:

s were actually 4-1 with the K onside. So, ruff the 3rd , cross to the A, lead the T, winning. Lead a second , putting in the Q and LHO shows out. Now you can afford to lose a , but you need to take one more shortening ruff in hand and get back with dummy on lead at trick 12.So A and a , losing to LHO. Ruff (or overruff) the return and go back to dummy in to coup RHO. If LHO leads when in with the K, you will be glad that you played A and another. If you use a to enter dummy and take the losing finesse in s, LHO will return a , and leave you short of an entry to be in dummy at trick 12 after taking the necessary shortening ruff.
I saw the line in the play, but rejected it for some odd reason as too speculative, fearing I was falling prey to FPS (fancy play syndrome). So did everyone else who even considered it, I guess.
What shape was RHO? Biggerclub's line is cunning but RHO can usually thwart it by discarding s at every opportunity :( For example, If LHO has 5 s, he can lead a 4th round :( Perhaps, the finesse is a better bet at single-dummy :)
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#6 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2015-December-02, 00:28

Well it works here because are 4-4. And it works anytime RHO has at least 3 and at least 7 cards in the minors, to go with the four that I already know about. And if the K is stiff.

But everyone, including me, took the finesse so maybe our collective instincts/analyses were correct.
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#7 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-December-02, 10:42

View Postbiggerclub, on 2015-December-02, 00:28, said:

Well it works here because are 4-4. And it works anytime RHO has at least 3 and at least 7 cards in the minors, to go with the four that I already know about. And if the K is stiff. But everyone, including me, took the finesse so maybe our collective instincts/analyses were correct.

When you ruff a , a cruel RHO can discard a :(

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#8 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2015-December-02, 15:02

View Postnige1, on 2015-December-02, 10:42, said:


When you ruff a , a cruel RHO can discard a :(



edit: just noticed west can exit a club, which would destroy the coup.
Wayne Somerville
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#9 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2015-December-02, 19:27

View Postnige1, on 2015-December-02, 10:42, said:


When you ruff a , a cruel RHO can discard a :(



No wonder no one made it then . . . . I feel better.
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