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Unlimited nebulous diamond Has anyone heard of it?

#1 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2015-November-16, 18:13

Have you thought about or seen a "short diamond" opening, similar to precision, but with a wide range? Let's say something like 12-14 NT or 11-20 with 4+ diamonds.
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#2 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2015-November-16, 18:28

Paging mickyb...
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#3 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2015-November-16, 18:40

I played unbalanced 11 to 22, or balanced 8 to 10, for a few years. It was very fun and worked rather well.
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#4 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2015-November-17, 09:16

Can you explain what you mean by "short diamond" in this context where you also say 4+?
I play that a 1 open is defined as having a singleton or void outside diamonds, or 6+ diamonds, 11/12 to 22, no 5 card major. It is always 3+, most usually 4+. A 3-suiter will have max 20.

This post has been edited by fromageGB: 2015-November-17, 09:19

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#5 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2015-November-17, 10:40

View PostfromageGB, on 2015-November-17, 09:16, said:

Can you explain what you mean by "short diamond" in this context where you also say 4+?


Yes I should have been clearer. I was thinking about a 1D bid which shows one of these:

a) Any 12--14 NT, so could have 2 diamonds
b) Unbalanced 4+ diamonds, 11--20

I'm curious about this in a big club context, and in that case 1D would show:

a) Any 12--14 NT
b) 12--14 4-4-1-4 (so 1D may have only one diamond if 12--14)
c) Unbalanced 4+ diamonds, 11--20
d) 5 clubs and 4 diamonds, 11--14
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#6 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2015-November-17, 13:01

If 1D is nebulous and limited, responder can easily preempt opposite without interfering with a strong hand.

If 1D is natural and limited, responder may raise or easily preempt opposite it.

If 1D is natural and wide-ranging (12-20?), responder may raise and there is less pressure on the strong club

With this 1D, there is less pressure on the strong club.

I don't think there's that much advantage to this opening.
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#7 User is offline   SteelWheel 

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Posted 2015-November-18, 10:16

View PostKungsgeten, on 2015-November-16, 18:13, said:

Have you thought about or seen a "short diamond" opening, similar to precision, but with a wide range? Let's say something like 12-14 NT or 11-20 with 4+ diamonds.


American Forcing Minor used a 1 opener which was either a 15-17 NT, or 15-20 HCP and the beginning of a possible canape sequence.
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#8 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2015-November-19, 01:12

That's hardly nebulous, it's just a 2-way .

I know a few pairs playing something similar (also with 1 being 2-way) in a natural system, and this works ok for them because it solves their NT ladder when playing 1NT as 9-11. So I was expecting this to be in a natural system. In a Polish type of system it's useful to make the 1 range bigger because the 1 opening is overloaded (and 2 rebid is used for all sorts of strong hands), but in a strong context I don't see much upside.
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#9 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2015-November-30, 00:40

Google "The Diamond Major" by Peter Oakley. I play a version of his creation in two Precision Partnerships. 1 is 10-14 hcp and promises at least one 4-card major. It may be as short as zero diamonds. Open 2 with 6 or 5 and 4. Use 2NT opening as 10-14 hcp and 5-5 in the minors. Full notes available via e-mail.
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#10 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-November-30, 18:25

View PostKungsgeten, on 2015-November-16, 18:13, said:

Have you thought about or seen a "short diamond" opening, similar to precision, but with a wide range? Let's say something like 12-14 NT or 11-20 with 4+ diamonds.
The Nottingham version that Liz McGowan and I played featured a "loose ", which we defined as...
  • Flattish 10-12 OR
  • 3-suiter (any 4441/5440) 10-34 HCP

(In Nottingham , you open 2 of a suit with good shapely hand)

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