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ATB - missed slam for minor penalty

Poll: ATB - missed slam for minor penalty (10 member(s) have cast votes)

Which calls (if any) do you disagree with (can select multiple)

  1. 2D (2 votes [12.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.50%

  2. E's first pass (3 votes [18.75%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.75%

  3. X (6 votes [37.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 37.50%

  4. E's second pass (3 votes [18.75%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.75%

  5. None - bad luck (1 votes [6.25%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.25%

  6. Other (1 votes [6.25%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.25%

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#1 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2015-November-14, 18:43



No special agreements beyond 2/1. I don't know what a first round 3 bid would have meant, but probably some kind of spade raise.

We managed to take this one off, when 6 is the coldest trump contract the world has ever seen. Who - or rather which call(s) - is most responsible?
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#2 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2015-November-14, 23:57

You might stand a chance of getting there if West would bid out the pattern of his hand with a 3 bid instead of a double.
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#3 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2015-November-15, 04:19

W with 18 prime HCP should jump for his 2nd bid. I usually bid the cheaper of my secondary suits to save space so here I would hit jackpot. Even if the rebid is 3D it is not over yet. Over the likely 3NT (3H would be a real suit in case partner is 5341 or 5332 sometimes) W could bid 4C visualizing 4 or less (or 5 bad) H but it will be tougher to get to 6 and someone will probably be punting rather than declare it scientifically. Still it scores as much than a scientifically bid slam.
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#4 User is offline   WesleyC 

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Posted 2015-November-15, 05:32

West's choice to rebid only 2D (hoping to pattern out with 3C next) is certainly reasonable. Obviously you'd kill to have gazilli available on a hand like this. Apollo's plan to jump shift and then force to 5m is too rich for me on a deal where partner will usually hold 5+H and we might not even have a fit.

I also agree with West's reopening double. This hand isn't too far from the 5143 shape that partner should expect. If partner chooses to convert with a singleton spade and a long weak heart stack you've got the perfect spade holding and plenty of side entries. On a different day, partner will be sitting on the KJ9xxx of hearts!

However I don't agree with East's final pass. Past experience tells me it's too greedy to leave a 7c suit unbid because partner will often hold club values that aren't pulling weight on defense. Even a minimum reopening double with club values like [KQTxx x JTxx AKx] gives 5C some chance while 2H could easily scrape home.

At the end of the day I'll stick to a fundamental bridge idea - making marginal penalty passes of 2M contracts isn't a winning strategy.
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#5 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2015-November-15, 06:36

View PostWesleyC, on 2015-November-15, 05:32, said:

West's choice to rebid only 2D (hoping to pattern out with 3C next) is certainly reasonable. Obviously you'd kill to have gazilli available on a hand like this. Apollo's plan to jump shift and then force to 5m is too rich for me on a deal where partner will usually hold 5+H and we might not even have a fit.

I also agree with West's reopening double. This hand isn't too far from the 5143 shape that partner should expect. If partner chooses to convert with a singleton spade and a long weak heart stack you've got the perfect spade holding and plenty of side entries. On a different day, partner will be sitting on the KJ9xxx of hearts!

However I don't agree with East's final pass. Past experience tells me it's too greedy to leave a 7c suit unbid because partner will often hold club values that aren't pulling weight on defense. Even a minimum reopening double with club values like [KQTxx x JTxx AKx] gives 5C some chance while 2H could easily scrape home.

At the end of the day I'll stick to a fundamental bridge idea - making marginal penalty passes of 2M contracts isn't a winning strategy.

I'm finding it hard to agree with some of the points made above:
  • If partner had a singleton spade and a long weak heart stack, partner could double for penalty. Would a double by partner really still mean takeout? If yes, of what?
  • I don't like West's reopening double because there is an inherent risk of getting passed out in 2x when better contracts exist for our side. In some situations, 2x may even make!
  • Finally, from East's perspective, 5 needs partner to hold A+K (or Q with an onside King). Perhaps I'd still prefer that East reopen with 3; but IMO the bigger flaw was the reopening double instead of patterning out with a 3 bid.

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#6 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2015-November-15, 09:48

I can't jump shift over 1nt cause it's game forcing but you can't stop me from patterning out with 3. If we belonged in 2 doubled, east would hit it.
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#7 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2015-November-15, 10:25

For east to pass over 2H with 7 clubs does not exist for me. If you hit partner with some Axxxx x Kxxx AKx you arent going to feel great conceding partscore with 5c a good spot, and to sit 2hx after the dble was extra strange. Partner has basically guaranteed for you that 5c will be good, with t/o orientated values.
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#8 User is offline   WesleyC 

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Posted 2015-November-15, 17:05

View Postshyams, on 2015-November-15, 06:36, said:

If partner had a singleton spade and a long weak heart stack, partner could double for penalty. Would a double by partner really still mean takeout? If yes, of what?


This is a valid point - if responder already had a chance to double 2H for penalties then there is a lot less value in reopening with a double on this hand. Personally, I use responder's double to show a maximum 1NT bid without clear direction.
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