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What's that??

Poll: What's that?? (25 member(s) have cast votes)

What does partner have?

  1. Choice of slams between 6H and 6D (11 votes [44.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 44.00%

  2. Grand slam try in diamonds without spade control (12 votes [48.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 48.00%

  3. Other (comment pls) (2 votes [8.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.00%

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#1 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2015-November-02, 17:51



4NT showed the minors. No other agreements.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#2 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2015-November-02, 18:15

I have only used pick a slam once (Wrongly) so not an expert. But IMO pick a slam is for chosing the right strain, even if north then bid 7 he would mean it as pick between 7 and 7 (which could be rectified to 7NT)

When willing to invite to grand one has 5 avaiblable.
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#3 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2015-November-02, 18:22

I would assume it would be a grand slam try without first round spade control (bid 5S instead of 5N with 1st round control)
Wayne Somerville
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#4 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2015-November-02, 18:23

View Postmanudude03, on 2015-November-02, 18:22, said:

I would assume it would be a grand slam try without first round spade control (bid 5S instead of 5N with 1st round control)

That's how I meant option 2 - edited.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#5 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2015-November-02, 18:24

The meaning of 6D is in the difference between 5S and 5NT. If there are no general understandings, the nuance is impossible to work out.

To me, there are two reasonable interpretations. In one, you have a sort of flag approach, where 5NT was a slam try in one of the minors, apparently diamonds. In that interpretation, 6C must have been a sort of Last Train, 6D declining. Hence, 6D is a mild grand invite.

A second plusible is that the nuance is that one invites grand with control and the other without, in spades. In that event, 6C declined, and 6D corrected.

If 5NT asked for choice, I almost give up. But, if so, then 6D is a grand move. This suggests 5S as a club flag, 5NT as a diamond flag or choice. Not unreasonable, but not too smart to whip out undiscussed.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#6 User is offline   PhantomSac 

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Posted 2015-November-03, 04:28

Choice between hearts and diamonds
The artist formerly known as jlall
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#7 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2015-November-05, 15:37

With no system in place I would assume the 5n followed by 6d was asking responder to bid a grand with 2 of the top 3 dia honors. A hand where advancer was willing to stop in 6d if overcaller chose 6d vs 6c (AKxx AKQ QJxxx A). This can be a useful treatment but hugely limited applications and only works for diamonds and even then only if partner chooses clubs vs diamonds (ie treating 5n as pick a slam see more below)*.

Responder has no room for fancy responses since it is quite possible advancer wants to play clubs. There are two suits where we might need a reasonable asking bid so we use 5s/5n do ask about the two suits. IHO (dont pull this on unsuspecting partner) 5s asks for 1st round control of spades while 5N asks for ONE of the top 3 heart honors. How else does advancer logically search for a grand with the following:

AKxx
AQJ advancer bids 5n asking for 1 of top 3 heart H
AKxxx
A

x
AKQJx advancer bids 5s asking for 1st round control of spades
AKxxxx
A

void
AQJxxxx advancer bid 5n asking for 1 of top 3 heart honors
AKxxx
A

A
KQJT9xxx advancer bids 5n asking for 1 of top 3 heart honors
AK
AK

x
AKxxxxx
AKxxx
void

*5n pick a slam is not useless but severely limited to essentially one hand type (something like) AK AKQJx Kxx Kxx) and wants responder to bid their best/longest minor to cut down on trump losers and has little to no chance of effectively searching for a grand (except when using it in conjunction with the 6c followed by 6d GSF interpretation).
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#8 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2015-November-06, 00:46

6 says Grand slam try in diamonds without spade control.
If north have first control in with minors fit,it should start cuebid 5.
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#9 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2015-November-08, 03:05

Am I allowed to know what 4NT meant?
In particular, did it show the minors, or was it any two-suiter? This is not at all obvious to me, because it depends on other agreements (such as NLM)
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#10 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2015-November-08, 05:01

View PostFrancesHinden, on 2015-November-08, 03:05, said:

Am I allowed to know what 4NT meant?
In particular, did it show the minors, or was it any two-suiter? This is not at all obvious to me, because it depends on other agreements (such as NLM)

Unless the OP was changed between it appearing and your question, we should assume 4NT does show the minors. However, I don't think we are any further forward, as 5NT followed by 6D is undiscussed. Occam's Razor recommends the simplest explanation, and I agree with the brief response by PhantomSac that North has hearts and diamonds.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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