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huge jump to slam for no reason

#1 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2015-October-28, 12:06

I know I overbid my hand by a king. I'm sorry. Can we talk about the 6 bid instead? Even if I'd had AQJx, the slam would have been hopeless. Can't GIB bid 4 or something here?


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#2 User is online   steve2005 

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Posted 2015-October-28, 14:28

apparently Gib is such a good declarer it only needs 12 hcp and 6 for a good slam lol
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#3 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2015-October-29, 04:50

Hi Gwnn,would you tell us that robots you played against / with is basic or advanced?
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#4 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2015-October-29, 06:50

Hey Lycier, sure! I played in a Robot Reward tournament. As far as I know those are always advanced robots, is this correct?
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#5 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2015-October-29, 07:43

View Postgwnn, on 2015-October-28, 12:06, said:

I know I overbid my hand by a king. I'm sorry. Can we talk about the 6 bid instead? Even if I'd had AQJx, the slam would have been hopeless. Can't GIB bid 4 or something here?

I've seen it do things like this before - bid slams on the basis of total points including distributional points, when we could easily have two or more losers off the top. What's weird about this one is that the hand wasn't deemed good enough for a 2/1, so it seems to have added the distributional points only after making the first response.
Gordon Rainsford
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#6 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2015-October-29, 08:06

View Postgwnn, on 2015-October-29, 06:50, said:

Hey Lycier, sure! I played in a Robot Reward tournament. As far as I know those are always advanced robots, is this correct?

Yes - advanced
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

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#7 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2015-October-29, 10:31

View Postgwnn, on 2015-October-29, 06:50, said:

Hey Lycier, sure! I played in a Robot Reward tournament. As far as I know those are always advanced robots, is this correct?


Hi Gwnn :
Very good.
I mean that if it is basic,I should shut up,if it is advanced,now here,please allow me to make some logical analysis and reasoning.

Now first,let's review Gib CC Notes ar below:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HCP vs Total Points

Gib uses both old fashioned HCP (A=4, K=3, Q=2, J=1)) and "Total points" (HCP+3 for void, 2 for singleton, 1 for doubleton, but short suits containing an honor are reduced by 1 point). It will usually force to game if it thinks it has 25 Total Points between the two hands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second,look at your hand.

View Postgwnn, on 2015-October-28, 12:06, said:

I know I overbid my hand by a king. I'm sorry. Can we talk about the 6 bid instead? Even if I'd had AQJx, the slam would have been hopeless. Can't GIB bid 4 or something here?





Assum you really held AQJx :



After you jump 2nt,your Gib partner will make reevaluation.
Your Gib partner will think you hand pattern is 5332 ,you might have 19-20TPs.
Your Gib partner have 13TPs.
Both of you have 32-33 TPs in total.
So your Gib partner can think 6 is reasonable logic bidding.

My conclusion is Replying to huge jump to slam for reasonable TPs evaluation.Posted Image

This post has been edited by lycier: 2015-October-29, 21:55

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#8 User is offline   42krunner 

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Posted 2015-October-29, 12:03

Csaba:

Was this caught on film? If so, I can't wait to watch your video.
-Daniel
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#9 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2015-October-29, 12:26

Haha! No, unfortunately not! :)
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#10 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2015-October-29, 12:29

I completely fail to understand the allure of such gross overbidding.

How about Axx, KQxxx, AT, KQx? GIB will not play you to have 4 Spades since you didn't reverse, though showing the strength to do so.
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#11 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2015-October-29, 12:43

I completely agree. Truth is, I just miscounted. I don't remember what I thought I had but I think it was 17. I don't open strong NT's as a rule so given that I'd opened I "knew" I had a 2N rebid.
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#12 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2015-October-29, 21:24

View Postiandayre, on 2015-October-29, 12:29, said:

How about Axx, KQxxx, AT, KQx? GIB will not play you to have 4 Spades since you didn't reverse, though showing the strength to do so.

Of course there are hands where the slam is good. But if I have that hand, I'll certainly cooperate with any slam try GIB makes here. The main issue is the quality (or lack thereof) in GIB's hand. I'd be OK (although not happy) with such a jump with x KQJxxx instead of K KT9xxx in +. This jump to slam should have some requirement on club quality, no?

If this were an ATB, I'd give myself at least 80% of the blame, but that does not change my opinion that jumping to slam in this auction either not be allowed at all or allowed only on some very weird hands (with one or more voids, eight card suits, and the likes).
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#13 User is online   steve2005 

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Posted 2015-October-30, 21:04

View Postlycier, on 2015-October-29, 10:31, said:

Assum you really held AQJx :

Both of you have 32-33 TPs in total.
So your Gib partner can think 6 is reasonable logic bidding.

My conclusion is Replying to huge jump to slam for reasonable TPs evaluation.Posted Image

Still off A and QJ so pretty bad slam and something keycard would show if you can set trump.
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#14 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2015-October-31, 01:29

View Poststeve2005, on 2015-October-30, 21:04, said:

Still off A and QJ so pretty bad slam and something keycard would show if you can set trump.

I guess this is Gib logical analysis and reasoning
hehe,I guess that 6 was determined on Gib's TP evaluation instead of on human.Posted Image
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#15 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2015-October-31, 02:11

Well that much was clear from the get go. The problem is, you shouldn't just jump to slam on such a weak suit. I'm not sure how you bid clubs here (3S? I think gib plays transfers) but jumping to slam is silly. He would never jump to 6S,right? You can instead set trumps and maybe keycard. 6C is a huge jump and should be avoided.
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#16 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2015-October-31, 08:10

View Postgwnn, on 2015-October-31, 02:11, said:

Well that much was clear from the get go. The problem is, you shouldn't just jump to slam on such a weak suit. I'm not sure how you bid clubs here (3S? I think gib plays transfers) but jumping to slam is silly. He would never jump to 6S,right? You can instead set trumps and maybe keycard. 6C is a huge jump and should be avoided.


Yes,yes,you are correct.
What you said just showed a weakness of Gib TPs evaluation model.
What else?
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#17 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2015-October-31, 08:32

Nothing else.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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