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ATB

Poll: ATB (22 member(s) have cast votes)

Who should have bid game? (pick multiple answers if both)

  1. W should have bid 3N (nat) over 3C (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. W should have bid 4H over 3C (19 votes [65.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 65.52%

  3. E should have bid 3D (showing non-min, no shortage) (2 votes [6.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.90%

  4. 3C was ok, but E should have then raised 3H to 4H (7 votes [24.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 24.14%

  5. Bad luck - both calls were right (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. Other (1 votes [3.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

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#1 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2015-October-02, 18:30



Who's to blame? Is the decision close for either or both?
The "4 is a transfer to 4" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2015-October-02, 18:48

I would have automatically bid 4 over 2N, presumably this means something else by your methods, but it follows that I should thus bid 4 over 3.
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#3 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2015-October-02, 19:27

West should bid 4 over 3.

(You might want to check the possible responses to this poll - West cannot possibly bid again over 3 because West bid 3).
Be the partner you want to play with.
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#4 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2015-October-02, 20:06

West should bid 4 over 3 .

West knows there is at least a 10 card fit. West's hand is 12 HCP with 2 QTs and all values are working with each other. Even if East's opener is a flat hand, West cards are sure to be useful. They'll limit the partnership's losers in every side suit.

From a LTC point of view, this is a 7 loser hand before any bid was made. But once are bid, the 3 losers in the suit become drop to 2 losers at most and very like no more than 1 loser. That makes the loser count too low to simply make a limit raise against a normal 7 loser opener. Had West's hand been an 8 loser hand and remained an 8 loser hand after opener's rebid, then showing the limit raise hand would have been appropriate.

Also, IMO, West's hand is an opener even in 1st or 2nd seat. It is an aggressive opener to be sure, but still an opener. An opener opposite an opener is worth a game bid.
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#5 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2015-October-02, 20:17

this is a very difficult hand.

one has to choose who underbid more. personally i'd go for west, but it's a close run decision. east certainly doesn't escape remedial lessons on bridge scoring and game bonuses.
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#6 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2015-October-02, 21:52

Both sides underbid, but west really has to insist on game. Blame 75% West 25% East.

West has an opening 1H bid and has heard his pard open 1H so he has to bid game.
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#7 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2015-October-02, 22:22

hmm I think some posters have lost their mind
We are told 3c= any minimum
opener has a minimum, opener has crap
west bidding seems insane....
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#8 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2015-October-02, 23:20

I think both clearly underbid.

I ran some double dummy computer sims. West hand vs. 5332 12-13 count (typical hand to pass 3h) = 70% to make. East hand vs. balanced 10-11 count 4 cd support = 55% to make. So West underbid by "more".
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#9 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2015-October-02, 23:24

View PostStephen Tu, on 2015-October-02, 23:20, said:

I think both clearly underbid.

I ran some double dummy computer sims. West hand vs. 5332 12-13 count (typical hand to pass 3h) = 70% to make. East hand vs. balanced 10-11 count 4 cd support = 55% to make. So West underbid by "more".


I hope that was my point.

Granted I have no idea vs cx sims
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#10 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2015-October-05, 17:56

I always just bid game with 10 trumps and prime cards, so E I guess.
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#11 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2015-October-06, 05:41

View PostStephen Tu, on 2015-October-02, 23:20, said:

I think both clearly underbid.

I ran some double dummy computer sims. West hand vs. 5332 12-13 count (typical hand to pass 3h) = 70% to make. East hand vs. balanced 10-11 count 4 cd support = 55% to make. So West underbid by "more".

I suspect "who under bid more" has more to do with opening bid style than your sim gives credit for. The lighter the openings, the more the West hand looks like a limit raise rather than a GF and the more the East hand has in extras.
(-: Zel :-)

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#12 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2015-October-07, 15:26

View PostCyberyeti, on 2015-October-02, 18:48, said:

I would have automatically bid 4 over 2N, presumably this means something else by your methods, but it follows that I should thus bid 4 over 3.


Bid 4. East is 3=6=2=2. 3=5=2=3 would be a true minimum.



4 may still make.
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#13 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2015-October-08, 03:18

If you are going to give a minimum, how about QJx AKQxx xx Jxx? Or we could discuss 6322 hands by changing a small club to a small heart. We could also play with the West hand if we wanted to provide whichever answer we wish to support. Single examples typically mean very little other than being a good way to convince yourself of the action you already decided is right.
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