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Exclude "runners" algorithm Change of "runners" algorithm suggestion.

#1 User is offline   grzes987 

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Posted 2015-August-29, 02:40

Some players plays in tournaments occasionaly. Like me. I've never run from tournament in my life. But BBO still gives me status "runner". I know why, problem is 60 days period to calculate "runner" status. I think is mistake. Using this algorithm with my occasional play in tournaments I will be still "runner", for ever. I think, it's stiupid i not fair. What for is 60 days period? BBO should remember last 10, 20 tournaments forever like numbers of loging.
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#2 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2015-August-29, 20:56

The reason for 60 days is because we want the statistic to represent your current Internet connection, not how good it was many months ago.

Just play in a few robot tourneys and you'll get your completion rate set.

#3 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 07:15

While it seems a reasonable argument that current internet connection is a significant concern, it appears to me that OP is requesting a change to the INITIATION of a TCR. If the main point to having the minimum number of tournaments played to establish is to make things more difficult for those who constantly create new IDs, using a longer (possibly much longer) initiation period should meet everyone's needs. If OP plays one tournament every other week with his regular human partner, it's silliness for him to need to play robot tournaments solely to establish TCR. What's the problem with using a year {no limit, as OP suggests} for establishment purposes, then 60 days for current calculation purposes?
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#4 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2015-August-30, 14:47

The other reason for the time limit is purely technical: it allows us to clean out old records from the database.

#5 User is offline   grzes987 

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Posted 2015-September-04, 10:46

Barmar,sorry, your arguments are very weak. Quality of current internet connection depends on many things, specially mobile connection. Sometimes internet provider has problems, sometimes our computers not work very well. Clearing database? Hm... I'm sure that yours servers store less important informations. I think, some bytes (11 should be enough) for every player are any problem in our times. But problem is anywere else, not only technical. You (bbo) call me "runner" although I've never run from table or tournament. I want play one tournament per week but I can't. You call "runner" many players with break for longer then 60 days in playing tournaments. This is the problem... This why i've called this algorithm "stiupid".
Ideas for fair players "play 10 tournamets with robots".... Sorry... This isn't answer.
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#6 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2015-September-04, 14:34

View Postgrzes987, on 2015-September-04, 10:46, said:

Barmar,sorry, your arguments are very weak. Quality of current internet connection depends on many things, specially mobile connection. Sometimes internet provider has problems, sometimes our computers not work very well.

True. But our best estimate of how you'll do in the future is based on the recent past. The further back we go, the less likely it is to be representative. Most people use the same Internet connection most of the time, and they're mostly consistent, so it's a reasonable assumption. It's an estimate based on statistics, no one expects it to be perfect.

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Clearing database? Hm... I'm sure that yours servers store less important informations. I think, some bytes (11 should be enough) for every player are any problem in our times. But problem is

We're storing information about every tournament that you entered and every hand that you played in the MBC. The table for tournaments has 5 million rows for 3 months, the table for MBC has over 11 million rows.

These aren't huge sizes, but these are just two of many tables on our database server. And space isn't the only issue -- increasing the size also means that the program that recalculates the statistics each day will take longer, and this is just one of dozens of programs that run each day.

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anywere else, not only technical. You (bbo) call me "runner" although I've never run from table or tournament. I want play one tournament per week but I can't. You call "runner" many players with break for longer then 60 days in playing tournaments. This is the problem... This why i've called this algorithm "stiupid".
Ideas for fair players "play 10 tournamets with robots".... Sorry... This isn't answer.

I admit that the "No runners" terminology is unfair, it makes it sound like it was intentional. In most places we just call it "Tournament Completion Rate", a non-judgemental term.

Note that most of the tournaments that BBO runs have no TCR restriction (the only ones that do are some of the Free Automated Fun tourneys). These restrictions are imposed by other groups who use our services. And there are plenty of tournaments, including many free ones, that have no TCR restriction. You're making it seem like this "stupid" algorithm is preventing you from playing in lots of tourneys, and that just isn't the case. Does the one tourney you want to play in each week really have to be the one with restricted entries? Perhaps the host of that tourney should also receive some of your criticism.

#7 User is offline   grzes987 

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Posted 2015-September-05, 04:16

Barmar, come on, you dont't need 5 milions rows in database do calculate "runner" status. For ten tournaments You need 10 bits (finished or not, type boolean) per player, if need be 1 byte to remember %.
Today i'm looking for normal (best will be cyclic, like "jukebox" or "high moon") tournament on max count without "exclude runners". Please, be nice, help me to find.
Last words, I don't write this post for provide academic debate about internet connections or building the dababases. I want show you, how it looks from side of players like me, not from side of bbo admins or "10 tournaments per day" players. It's all. Thank's for answer on my post, best regards
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#8 User is offline   hevnandhel 

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Posted 2015-September-29, 09:58

Agree with grzes987. I'm a new BBO player, never quit a tournament...because I've never been able to play in one. Almost all free tournaments seem to have the TCR restriction applied. And I don't really want to play with robots in tourneys, especially if it is just to get an acceptable TCR. It would be better to base the TCR on tournaments started but not finished rather than...whatever it currently based on.
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#9 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2015-September-29, 13:58

Is easy to boost your TCR. Volunteer as a sub. If you complete tournament as a sub it boosts your TCR but if you disconnect it doesn't count against you.
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#10 User is offline   mink 

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Posted 2015-November-07, 06:09

My face-to-face partner does not like to play online very often, and she would never play a robot tourney. This results in being not able to play most of the free tourneys together even though none of us ever quits a tourney. The algorithm should really be changed that players who have not quit tourneys for some time are not regarded as runners, no matter how few tourneys they did play in the last two months.

Karl
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