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Tough 3NT

#1 User is offline   wynsten 

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Posted 2015-August-22, 15:28

I was East defending 3NT, led the spade Q, run to North's K. We defeated the contract but it can be made if declarer plays correctly to the second trick. Use double dummy analysis if you need to, to find the right line, but what is going on? Does this play have a name?

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#2 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2015-August-23, 01:38

To make one has to play double-dummy, which is not remotely the way real players play bridge. In the real world nobody would make this. Not because nobody is 'that good' but because the required line is idiotic. It happens to work but why not play for the club Q to be onside no more than Qxx? That has to be a far better line than the one that actually works.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#3 User is offline   wynsten 

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Posted 2015-August-23, 06:44

View Postmikeh, on 2015-August-23, 01:38, said:

To make one has to play double-dummy, which is not remotely the way real players play bridge. In the real world nobody would make this. Not because nobody is 'that good' but because the required line is idiotic. It happens to work but why not play for the club Q to be onside no more than Qxx? That has to be a far better line than the one that actually works.

Sorry Mike - by "play correctly" I didn't mean that the winning play is correct single dummy play; I meant correct double dummy play, which looks, as you say, "idiotic". But there must be method in the double dummy madness. It doesn't "just happen to work". Why does the play work, and what might it be called? Perhaps, in the future, you will face a hand where it is the winning single dummy line.
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#4 User is offline   bgm 

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Posted 2015-August-23, 11:32

In a very simple word it involve end-play(s).

One feature of this hand is that declarer has 8 obvious tricks after trick 1, but it seems that there are no communication to reach his winners if one try to establish one more after hook. If winners are cashed prematurely then it will set up enough setting tricks for the defender.

Trick 2 is very delicate - It require you to cash exactly 1 and discarding a low before exiting in .

The play line varies afterward, depends on the defensive line. Suppose declarer cash 1 top , stripping E before exiting in .

Here are some variations in general afterward:

- W cannot over take as this will promote S 8 as the 9th trick. E will be eventually end-played as a stepping stone to reach N winners.
- Suppose E tries to attack . Then declarer can hook in , exit in again (keeping ). This will kill the communication in .
- If E tries to attack with a top now, declarer can win and play from top, to establish and end-play W. Most other variation have this similar ending.
- If E continue attack , declarer can try the same end-play, or stripping W and throw in W by , which give J as the 9th winner.
- If E attack , declarer can counter similarly by playing again. Then E has no entry to reach the winner, and lead to a similar ending.
- If E cash first, the ending is similar.


Cashing 2nd at trick 3 is fatal as it gives tempo for E to establish .

The interesting case is: if declarer not cashing at trick 2, just cash 1 top and exit in .
Then E can win and attack with a top . Then if declarer tries the similar line above, W can play back the 4th to end-play dummy instead after winning Q. So it is crucial for declarer to unblock the by playing the early.
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#5 User is offline   dboxley 

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Posted 2015-August-23, 16:31

View Postmikeh, on 2015-August-23, 01:38, said:

To make one has to play double-dummy, which is not remotely the way real players play bridge. In the real world nobody would make this. Not because nobody is 'that good' but because the required line is idiotic. It happens to work but why not play for the club Q to be onside no more than Qxx? That has to be a far better line than the one that actually works.


I think the obvious intent was to post an interesting double dummy problem, which this was...
Wow! Over 10000 posts! Do you stop to eat?
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#6 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2015-August-23, 17:32

View Postdboxley, on 2015-August-23, 16:31, said:

I think the obvious intent was to post an interesting double dummy problem, which this was...
Wow! Over 10000 posts! Do you stop to eat?

well, the OP stated that the declarer would have made if he had found the 'correct' play at trick one, which doesn't sound like inviting a double dummy analysis to me. I'm not claiming that such was not the OP intent, only that it didn't read that way to me.

Meanwhile, after going after me in several posts a month or more ago (including a gratuitous shot on a thread where I had not even posted!), and then insulting me on my profile page, you seemed to take a break from attacking me to the point of an almost apology on my profile....but your true colours are shining through again. You clearly have issues....you should seek help :D Or just put me on ignore....that way we will both be happy B-)
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#7 User is offline   BillPatch 

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Posted 2015-August-24, 02:59

mikeh-Congratulations on the over 10,000 posts. You are one of my favorite bridge writers, based entirely on these forums.
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