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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#7961 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 16:18

View Postldrews, on 2017-November-10, 14:41, said:

Well, I don't remember Obama muscling China about it. Or announcing that anyone doing business with North Korea would not be able to do business with the US. Or locating 3 aircraft carriers in the North Korean area. Nor making North Korea, and everyone else, nervous as a prelude to actually negotiating something that might work (although I would not expect North Korea to keep any agreements based on their 25 year history).

I would measure success as excellent if North Korea denuclearizes peacefully, success as moderate if force is required, and failure if nothing changes.

How about you? How would you measure success. What would you suggest is a better approach? Or are you just taking cheap shots because you have nothing to offer?


1. In general, the person making the claim is the one who is expect to explain just what the $^()^$ they're talking about.

2. I'd posted what I thought that best course of action was a few hours before your last "contribution". Perhaps you should read it

3. As for what Trump is doing, you are confusing meaningless statements with real action.

Diplomacy does not get conducting in public via inane Tweets.
It would be nice if both you and Trump learned this...

I will give you the following: Moving a third aircraft carrier into the Western Pacific is a very real action...
Sadly, I think that this is a prelude to something incredibly stupid.

> success as excellent if North Korea denuclearizes peacefully, success as moderate if force is required, and failure if nothing changes

What if North Korea is forcibly de-nuclearized but a half million people in South Korea die.
Is this success or failure?

(Given that this is the entire reason that no one has taken action against North Korea in the past you'd think that it would feature in your calculations somewhere)
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#7962 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 16:30

View Posthrothgar, on 2017-November-10, 16:05, said:

What I find truly remarkable if Drews is so absolutely convinced that Trump is doing the right thing and represents a radical departure from the Obama administration but is utter incapable of describing what it is that he approves of.

its almost as if acting like an idiot on Twitter is the be-all and end-all of foreign policy for Drews.


Yes, and it would be perhaps tolerable if the tweets were at minimum factual but spouting nonsense over the social media is not foreign policy.
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#7963 User is online   ldrews 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 16:59

View Posthrothgar, on 2017-November-10, 16:05, said:

What I find truly remarkable if Drews is so absolutely convinced that Trump is doing the right thing and represents a radical departure from the Obama administration but is utter incapable of describing what it is that he approves of.

its almost as if acting like an idiot on Twitter is the be-all and end-all of foreign policy for Drews.


What is even more remarkable is hrothgar's inability to read or lack of memory (Alzheimer's?). I have not been shy about my beliefs and positions for well over a year. At this point the only reason for listing them again is give hrothgar and others something to target.

IMO Trump is changing the direction of US in ways that I approve of. His personality and food-fights I could do without, but his policies I mostly agree with.

Which of Trump's policies do you disagree with?
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#7964 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 17:03

View Postldrews, on 2017-November-10, 16:59, said:

What is even more remarkable is hrothgar's inability to read or lack of memory (Alzheimer's?). I have not been shy about my beliefs and positions for well over a year. At this point the only reason for listing them again is give hrothgar and others something to target.



Try to follow along Larry

I spent the last 4 posts asking specifically to describe which of Trump's policies regarding North Korea you approved off.
And you respond by posting pablum.

I am well aware of your general beliefs about Trump, as are the rest of the folks on this list.

However, you made very specific claim claim - Trump is doing the right thing with respect to North Korea - and up until recently you were completely incapably of describing what it was that you actually approved of...

More recently, you've been a bit more clear...
As stupid as ever.
But a bit more clear.
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#7965 User is online   ldrews 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 17:15

Some sample Federal regulations:

21 USC §461 & 9 CFR §381.171(d) make it a crime to sell "Turkey Ham" as "Ham Turkey" or with the words "Turkey" and "Ham" in different fonts
7

16 USC §551 & 36 CFR §261.16© make it a crime to wash a fish at a faucet if it's not a fish-washing faucet, in a national forest.

18 U.S.C. §1857 makes it a federal crime to knowingly let your pig enter a fenced-in area on public land where it might destroy the grass.

18 U.S.C. §1657 makes it a federal crime to consult with a known pirate.

18 U.S.C. §1865 & 36 C.F.R. §2.15(a)(4) make it a federal crime to let your pet make a noise that scares the wildlife in a national park.

40 U.S.C. §8103(b)(4) makes it a federal crime to injure a government-owned lamp.

21 USC §333 & 21 CFR §102.39 make it a crime to sell onion rings resembling normal onion rings, but made from diced onion, without saying so

18 USC §1382 & 32 CFR §636.28(g)(iv) make it a federal crime to ride a moped into Fort Stewart without wearing long trousers.

...

There are lots more.
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#7966 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 17:25

View Postldrews, on 2017-November-10, 17:15, said:

Some sample Federal regulations:

21 USC §461 & 9 CFR §381.171(d) make it a crime to sell "Turkey Ham" as "Ham Turkey" or with the words "Turkey" and "Ham" in different fonts
7

16 USC §551 & 36 CFR §261.16© make it a crime to wash a fish at a faucet if it's not a fish-washing faucet, in a national forest.

18 U.S.C. §1857 makes it a federal crime to knowingly let your pig enter a fenced-in area on public land where it might destroy the grass.

18 U.S.C. §1657 makes it a federal crime to consult with a known pirate.

18 U.S.C. §1865 & 36 C.F.R. §2.15(a)(4) make it a federal crime to let your pet make a noise that scares the wildlife in a national park.

40 U.S.C. §8103(b)(4) makes it a federal crime to injure a government-owned lamp.

21 USC §333 & 21 CFR §102.39 make it a crime to sell onion rings resembling normal onion rings, but made from diced onion, without saying so

18 USC §1382 & 32 CFR §636.28(g)(iv) make it a federal crime to ride a moped into Fort Stewart without wearing long trousers.

...

There are lots more.


Yes.

They are all listed on this page by Freedom Works
http://www.freedomwo...and-regulations

Any reason why you feel obliged to plagiarize like this?

Do you think that people don't respect you for your "intellect"?
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#7967 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 17:38

View Posthrothgar, on 2017-November-10, 17:25, said:

Yes.

They are all listed on this page by Freedom Works
http://www.freedomwo...and-regulations

Any reason why you feel obliged to plagiarize like this?

Do you think that people don't respect you for your "intellect"?


I fail to see how removing obsolete statutes threatens North Korea. That was the discussion, wasn't it....North Korea?
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#7968 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 17:45

If Ken Berg is listening, I found this to be of interest as to why there is such difficulty in the two sides finding common ground.
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#7969 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 18:01

View PostWinstonm, on 2017-November-10, 17:38, said:

I fail to see how removing obsolete statutes threatens North Korea. That was the discussion, wasn't it....North Korea?


Maybe Drews doesn't understand that removing statues and statutes are different things?
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#7970 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 18:15

View Posthrothgar, on 2017-November-10, 18:01, said:

Maybe Drews doesn't understand that removing statues and statutes are different things?


Or the difference between a carnival barker and a president.
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#7971 User is online   ldrews 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 18:46

View PostWinstonm, on 2017-November-10, 18:15, said:

Or the difference between a carnival barker and a president.


If a carnival barker is elected President, pray tell, what is the difference?
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#7972 User is online   ldrews 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 18:51

Since Trump was elected President unemployment has dropped to a 17 year low. http://money.cnn.com...port/index.html

Is this bad?
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#7973 User is online   ldrews 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 18:54

Since Trump was elected President, GDP has been growing >3% per year based on latest quarters. https://www.cnbc.com...e-expected.html

Is this bad?
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#7974 User is online   ldrews 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 18:57

Since Trump was elected President, illegal border crossings have decreased by 40%. https://www.usatoday...wn-40/98935926/

Is this bad?
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#7975 User is online   ldrews 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 19:03

Since Trump was elected President, Neil Gorsuch was appointed and confirmed to the Supreme Court. From Wikipedia: Gorsuch is a proponent of textualism in statutory interpretation and originalism in interpreting the U.S. Constitution, and is an advocate of natural law jurisprudence.

Is this bad?
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#7976 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2017-November-10, 19:38

View Postolegru, on 2017-November-10, 14:04, said:

I recently signed up for free Stanford online course "The Threat of Nuclear Terrorism" (https://lagunita.sta...ism%2BFall2017/)
Very interesting but extremely sad and scary lectures and discussions.
There were several discussions about NK with no real answer of course, but



seems like the only possible approach to try to solve that problem.

In that online course, did they mention anything about convincing Israel that Un (or his nuclear armament) is a threat to them and therefore the Israeli forces will "remove" the threat?
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#7977 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2017-November-11, 04:05

View Postldrews, on 2017-November-10, 18:51, said:

Since Trump was elected President unemployment has dropped to a 17 year low. http://money.cnn.com...port/index.html

Is this bad?


Wow...

You are desperate to change the topic to anything but North Korea.

In answer to your question, I don't think many people would argue that a further decrease in the unemployment rate is a bad thing.
In particular, the current drop does not seem to be associated with any signs that the economy is overheating.

With this said and done, the current drop in unemployment is no different from the long term trend that the US experienced under Obama.
The rate of change is literally the same.

1. What makes you believe that President Trump had anything to do with this this rather than a continuation of the long term trend that kicked off during the Obama administration
If Trump is actually accomplishing something new and different shouldn't we see a noticeable inflection point?

2. Critics of the Obama recovery frequently commented that the unemployment rate only tells part of the story. "Good" manufacturing jobs were being replaced by low paying service jobs. Has any of this changed under Trump?
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#7978 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2017-November-11, 04:12

View Postldrews, on 2017-November-10, 18:54, said:

Since Trump was elected President, GDP has been growing >3% per year based on latest quarters. https://www.cnbc.com...e-expected.html

Is this bad?


What about all those open questions about North Korea?

Trump hasn't achieved 3% annual growth. Rather, we had sufficient growth in one quarter such that that quarter's growth, compounder over 4 quarters would be greater than 3%.
That happened eight times or so during the Obama administration. This is nothing new.

(FWIW, growth in 2017 is expected to be about 2.6%. This is an increase over 2016 where we experienced about 2.1% growth)
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#7979 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2017-November-11, 04:15

View Postldrews, on 2017-November-10, 18:57, said:

Since Trump was elected President, illegal border crossings have decreased by 40%. https://www.usatoday...wn-40/98935926/

Is this bad?


What about all those questions about North Korea that you are ignoring.

Yeap. There has been a big decrease in border crossings.

Its not something that I particularly care about...
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#7980 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2017-November-11, 04:21

View Postldrews, on 2017-November-10, 19:03, said:

Since Trump was elected President, Neil Gorsuch was appointed and confirmed to the Supreme Court. From Wikipedia: Gorsuch is a proponent of textualism in statutory interpretation and originalism in interpreting the U.S. Constitution, and is an advocate of natural law jurisprudence.

Is this bad?


So, about all those issues with North Korea that you are ignoring...

I don't much care for Gorsuch's politics. However, part of a president's responsibility is to appoint Supreme Court justices.
I don't consider Gorsuch a completely inappropriate selection. (Please note: I am in no way a fan of originalism)

With this said and done, the seat that Gorsuch was appointed to was stolen, so it is VERY doubtful that you will ever find anyone on the left to speak of this action in approving terms.

Moreover, a number of Trump's appointments to lower courts are grossly unfit for office.
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