[MrAce]

antonylee, on 2015-July-12, 15:17, said:

If, over your 1NT(F) partner rebids 2♣/♦ then you are fine, if he rebids 2♥ then you are obviously happy, and if he rebids 2♠ you can suppress hearts and support spades. I would say the case of opener jump-shifting is rare enough to be ignored (and it's not as if the hand becomes unbiddable). A weak hand will just bid hearts without jumping at the next opportunity, as in standard.
Certainly this is a bit vulnerable to preemption, although again you have jumps and non-jumps in hearts available (over moderate preemption), and partner can always correct if he knows to expect two-card support.

You can not make a system based on IFs.

Pd can make a jump shift or opponents can interfere, and you are dead.

1♠-(pass)-1NT-(2m)
Pass-(3m)- ?

- You bid 3♥ now and pd never knows whether you have 10 hcp 6 card hearts or 4 hcp 7 card hearts. What makes you think that 2 card spades is such an important thing to mention misses by a mile.

- Pd rebids 2♠ and yes you found an 8 card spade fit. (say you have 4 hcp and 7 card hearts) and he may have 2-3 card hearts. You can be cold for ♥ game when you can barely make 2♠. OR if you try to bid 3♥ with those hands, he will never know whether you are very weak or started 1 NT with the intention of inviting in hearts at the first place.

- Pd may make a jump shift to a 3m. Same problem. Even worse, here 3♥ may not even have to be 6-7 card if you are unable to or not willing to bid 3 NT. Or you bid 3 NT with stopper(s) in 4th suit (this is 4th suit to you only since you see hearts in your hand) and hearts gets lost during the auction.

But yea, IF pd bids as you want him to or opponents do not get in, you can successfully show both hearts invitation with 2 card spades and hearts invitation with short spades. What a science and improvement to our auction!! And wait for a decade for teh hand that it really mattered. Not only you gain little or no edge at all and disable your side IF god forbid pd/opps does not bid what you are prepared for, but also a nice road map to defenders each and every single time you declare.

If you think that showing 2 card spades (or lack of it) is more important than being able to show x AQJxxx Kxx Jxx and x AT9xxxx xx xxx differently, over every rebid of pd and bid by opponents, then I say you are nuts! Sorry.

[Zelandakh]

antonylee, on 2015-July-10, 09:17, said:

Partner cues 4♦, what now?

Is this really a cue bid here? What would be bid with a good hand for clubs and no diamond control? 4NT Last Train would be possible but we already know from the earlier discussion that the agreements are not detailed enough for this to be clear. Without clear agreements I would take 4♦ as our only forcing club raise and not as a promise of something in diamonds. Maybe best would be to make the clear agreements before incorporating the gadget though...

[MrAce]

Zelandakh, on 2015-July-13, 07:19, said:

Is this really a cue bid here? What would be bid with a good hand for clubs and no diamond control? 4NT Last Train would be possible but we already know from the earlier discussion that the agreements are not detailed enough for this to be clear. Without clear agreements I would take 4♦ as our only forcing club raise and not as a promise of something in diamonds. Maybe best would be to make the clear agreements before incorporating the gadget though...

I would bid 4♦ with no clear direction of what to do (such as with only 3 clubs) and asking pd to bid a game and play, unless it is followed by 5♣ later. If he has 4 of them he can bid 5♣ over my 4M for encouraging or direct 5♣ over 4♣ if discouraging for slam.

[antonylee]

Zelandakh, on 2015-July-13, 07:19, said:

Is this really a cue bid here? What would be bid with a good hand for clubs and no diamond control? 4NT Last Train would be possible but we already know from the earlier discussion that the agreements are not detailed enough for this to be clear. Without clear agreements I would take 4♦ as our only forcing club raise and not as a promise of something in diamonds. Maybe best would be to make the clear agreements before incorporating the gadget though...

Indeed, more detailed follow-ups would be useful. It has become not so rare, though, to see 1M-3m played as invitational, but I haven't see much about auctions such as 1S-3D(inv); 4C(=?)-4H(=?) either.
At the table my assumption was that after the JS, 4♣ is a priori a cue rather than length, and that the only way to play in clubs is by jumping to 6♣ or via a pick-a-slam 5N.