[biggerclub]

So here is my latest thinking . . . .

1C = either 17+ (or 5 or fewer losers) or long Clubs, without or without a shorter second suit.
1D = either long Diamonds or off count NT
1H = 4+ H's but not canape . . . so if 2 (or 3) suited, should not have a 5 card suit, unless Hs are also 5+
1S = see 1H but Ss.
1NT = 10-13 NV 1 and 2. 14-16 otherwise. The 1D off count NT with 14-16 should be either the best 11 (AK, A) or 12-13
All 2 level bids = 8-12, 8 loser hands with good 5 or often 6 card suit. With 7 (or 6) losers, open 1 of suit
2NT = Strong (4 or fewer losers) minor 2-suiter. 3C or 3D = attempt to sign-off.

After a 1C opening:

1D = all hands <8 HCP. Negative response.
1H = Positive response, 4+ Spades, may have longer minor
1S = Positive response, 4+ Hearts, may have longer minor
1NT = Positive response, 5+ Clubs
2C = Positive response, 4+ Diamonds
2D = Positive response, 6+ Hearts and 8 losers (8-12 HCP)
2H = Positive response, 6+ Spades and 8 losers (8-12 HCP)
2S = Balanced GF Opposite weak C hand

After 1C - 1D Opener bids

1H = 19-20 or 24-25 NT or 4+ Hs, may have weak Clubs hand (5+ Cs, 4 Hs) or strong but not GF Hearts hand F1
1S = 21-22 or 26-27 NT or 4+ Ss, may have weak Clubs hand (5+ Cs, 4 Ss) or strong but not GF Spades hand F1
1NT = 17-18 NT; Systems On
2C = Single Suited Clubs and 13-16 6-7 losers
2D = Strong but not GF minor suited hand F1
2H = <= 3 losers in Hearts
2S = <= 3 losers in Spades
2NT = 23-24 NT

After the 1C - 1D - 1MAJ sequence:

2C or 2 of openers MAJ = 2x Neg (0-5, no Ace)
1S/1H or 1NT/1S = semi-pos 5-7 general and balanced (usually)
Anything else = semi-pos and shape and implies some level of fit for one of opener's suits
Bidding must get to 2 of opener's MAJ or 3 Clubs so Responder can go slow with strongish hands

After the 1C - Positive Response sequence:

Cheapest Clubs or Cheapest bid of suit shown by Responder = weak hand with fit if accepting Responder's transfer. Any other bid shows the strong C opening, sets up a game force and invites Responder to make a second x-fer to show his second suit.

Over the limited openings:

Natural bidding through the 1 level, with 1NT non-forcing but showing as few (that is as strong) as 8 losers
2/1 GF
2NT/1 MAJ = Jacoby Raise
2/1 GF shows 7 or fewer losers, no fudging

[Kungsgeten]

I think this could work. I've had similar ideas, and to me the main downside is contested auction after the 1♣ opening. You got to have detailed agreements for when opener can take action and when not. Can opener act with the club hand or does he have to pass? Responder also have a tough time, compared to say Polish or Swedish club where opener is balanced if min.

I do not quite understand when the majors are 4 card suits. Do 1NT/1♦ deny four card majors? Or is this to cater for 4441 hands?

I would personally put the unbalanced hands with diamonds into 1♣ and the unbalanced hands with clubs into 1♦ instead. The main benefit for this is that a minimum hand with diamonds (perhaps 11--14) passes the negative response.

[biggerclub]

Kungsgeten, on 2015-June-30, 06:32, said:

. . .
I do not quite understand when the majors are 4 card suits. Do 1NT/1♦ deny four card majors? Or is this to cater for 4441 hands?

. . .

For Matchpoint Games, I think it is better to open the 4 card MAJ than to risk losing it with a weak NT. And for IMPs, I like the pre-emptive value of the major suit vs. the minor suit opening although 1NT is even more pre-emptive.

I would favor 1 of a MAJ with 4-4-3-2 (especially with a weak doubleton) or 4-4-4-1 shape. I have never had much difficulty playing 4 card majors though so your mileage may vary. Without 4 card Majors some solution needs to be found for the specific 4-4-1-4 shape.

[Kungsgeten]

I've played a lot of four card majors and quite like it so I understand. Just curious

[helene_t]

From what you say about your preferences for 4cM it sounds like I might be able to sell you this style:

9-11 bal: Open a 4cM if you have it, otherwise pass
12-14: 1NT
15-17: 1♦ (swap 1♦ and 1NT in 3rd and maybe in all seats vulnerable?)
18+: 1♣

[biggerclub]

helene_t, on 2015-June-30, 09:13, said:

From what you say about your preferences for 4cM it sounds like I might be able to sell you this style:

9-11 bal: Open a 4cM if you have it, otherwise pass
. . . .

I put quite a bit of energy into trying a system with 9 HCP as the lower limit to open and could not find a satisfactory solution to bidding out shape and strength. I was persuaded that moving toward more sound openings, with weak 2s for all strains, was the solution. Any 1 bid (other than the pre-emptive 10-13 1NT) shows a maximum of 7 losers, while the "weak" 2s show the 8 loser hands with "safe" trumps.

I do like the stronger 1C opening and I am considering splitting the strong ranges between 1C and 1D in this system as there is no reason that 1D could not be "2-way" just as 1C is in the current iteration. I just have to work out how we can give a negative response to the 1D opening, stay low enough and not hijack the MAJ suit responses, etc.

[nullve]

Like you, I have toyed with a Precision-or-natural 1C opening. My version was designed to allow continuations in the spirit of 1993 Viking Club: Basic idea:

1C: like a Precision 1C, 2C or 2D opening, possibly excluding 10-15 with 4414

1C-?:

1D = 0-7, any (as in Viking Club) / 8+, 4441

1H = strong relay, as in Viking Club

1S+ = as in Viking Club, except that

3H+: available to show 8+, 4441, so e.g.:

3H = 8-10

3S = 11-13

3N = 14-16

4C = 17+

1S+: I don't have very strong opinions here, but maybe

1S = min 1C opener, unbal., 4+ M

1N = relay

2C+: e.g. some NT defense such as Asptro

1N = 17-19 bal., or min 1C and no other good bid (e.g. with 6m(331) or (31)(54)). Then something like

2C = 5+ H

2D = 1- H

2H = 6+ H, to play

2H+ = same as 2H+ over a Jacoby 2D transfer

2D = 5+ S

2H = 1- S

2S = 6+ S, to play

2S+ = same as 2S+ over a Jacoby 2H transfer

2H = 4+S4+H, weak

2N = Puppet Stayman

NOTE: Responder has no way to invite with a 4c major.

2C = Precision 2C opener, maybe guaranteeing 6+ C, as when

2D = 10-15, 4S5C

2H = 10-15, 3-S4H5C

2S+: something like

2S = min 1C opener, 6+m4Om

2N = min 1C opener, 5+D5+C

3m = min 1C opener, 3-S3-H7+m3-Om

1H = 8+, 5+ S / 11+ bal. (as in Viking Club ("latest changes" on p. 187), but with balanced hands starting at 11 instead of 15)

1S = 16+, relay

1N = 11+ bal.

2C = relay

2D+: as in Viking Club over 1C-1N, but with 11+ (think 11-16) instead of (8)9-14

2C+ = as in Viking Club

1N = Precision 2C opener, 3+ S

No strong opinions, but maybe

2C = 11-12 bal., NF

2D = ART GF

2H+ = same as 2H+ over 2C-2D in Precision, except that Opener has already shown 3+ S

2H = 5+ S, inv+

2S = 5+ S, < inv

3N = to play

2C = Precision 2C opener, 2- S

1S = 8+, 5+ H (as in Viking Club ("latest changes"))

1N = 16+, relay (as in Viking Club)

2C = Precision 2C opener, 2- H

2D+: some of these bids describe a Precision 2C opener with 3+ H, e.g.:

2D = Precision 2C opener, good H raise

2H = Precision 2C opener, min H raise

1N = 8+, 5+ D, unbal., not 5D4C, may have 5D5C

2C = Precision 2C opener

2D = 16+, relay

2H+: as 2H+ over 1C-2C; 2D in vanilla Viking Club, but with minors reversed

2C = 8-10, bal.

P = allowed

2D = 16+ relay

2H+ = same as 2H+ over 1C-1N; 2C in Viking Club (but with 8-10 instead of (8)9-11)

2H+: some of these bids describe a (max?) Precision 2C opener

2D = 8+, 5+ C, unbal., not 4D5C (as in Viking Club ("latest changes"))

2H = 16+, relay

2S+: same as 2S+ over 1C-2D; 2H in vanilla Viking Club, but with minors reversed

2M-3C: these bids describe a Precision 2C opener

2H = 8+, 5m4Om (as in Viking Club)

2S = 16+, relay (as in Viking Club)

2N+: some of these bids describe a Precision 2C opener

2S+: some of these bids describe (4441)-hands with 8+ hcp, as in Viking Club. But the standard scheme doesn't work opposite a Precision 2C opener, so I suggest the following:
2S = 8+, 1444

2N = relay

3C = 8-10

3D = 11-13

3H = 14+

3C = NF

2N = 8-10, 8-10, 4144

3C = relay

3C = 11-13. 4144
3D = 14+, 4144
3H = 14+, 4414

Further note on (4441) hands: Neither of the two schemes described in the 1993 book (Norwegian version) works opposite a Precision 2C opener, but I'm struggling to find an elegant alternative. At least I've concluded that 8-12 counts with 4441 should respond 1D in the hope of staying low opposite the wrong kind of Precision 2C opener. (E.g. playing 3C on a 6-1 fit is obviously something to be avoided.) 8-12 counts with 4414 should be treated as balanced (and so should either respond 1H or 2C), because the alternative of responding 2S+ directly just makes it too difficult to sort things out opposite a Precision 2C opener. So the only 8-12 counts (in fact, the only 8-13 counts, in the above scheme) that should respond 2S+ directly are those with (41)44. So in the mess above, hands with

* 8+, 4441 always respond 1D
* 8-13, 4414 are treated as balanced, but Responder will show both majors, then bid a third step (=3N) to show 4414
* 14+, 4414 respond 3H
* 8+, 1444 always respond 2S
* 8+, 4144 respond 2N-3D.

DISCLAIMER: This is not necessarily a system I would play, except for fun.

[steve2005]

Don't know if your in outside usa so don't care, but response to 1♣ are not GCC compatible.