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Not partner's fault The key was the overcall

#1 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2015-June-19, 06:01

Both in 4. Partner was apologetic when he went down, but I thought he had played for the best chance given the bidding. At our table North overcalled 1. At the other table North overcalled 2. Was this why we lost 14 imps?


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#2 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2015-June-19, 06:23

Certainly the14th IMP is avoidable as ruffing last spade in hand to shorten our trumps is a really bad move, but other that that, richard tlegrahped the Q position on the other table, you don't really have much blame.
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#3 User is offline   andrei 

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Posted 2015-June-19, 08:56

Playing Q at trick 2 was not a smart move.
If first 4 tricks are:

: A 7 Q 3
: A 3 9 7
: J 4 4() Q
: K 9 2 3()

The position now is:



cross in hand with a trump, ruff 10 with A, draw trumps
now N is known to have been 6223
play remaining trumps, N needs to keep 2 spades and discard 1 club and you have the rest regardless where Q is.

Show-up :)
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#4 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2015-June-19, 11:12

What Andrei said, except he meant spade king at trick 3 not spade queen at trick 2.
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#5 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2015-June-19, 12:07

When west leads 9 North shouldn't cover with 10. on the hand that made, gives declarer a winning option he wasn't going to take.
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#6 User is offline   andrei 

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Posted 2015-June-19, 12:43

View Postjdonn, on 2015-June-19, 11:12, said:

What Andrei said, except he meant spade king at trick 3 not spade queen at trick 2.


I really meant Q at trick 2 :)

Spades were
N:AJTxxx
W:Qx E:Kxxx
S:x

When, at trick 2, N played A, declarer played Q from hand instead of a small one, probably trying to convince N that he has a singleton. It did not work :)
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#7 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-June-19, 12:44

At our table I would play different than Aaron did, risking to go down more to get more info about their hand.

Richard was known to hold 6+2 at the time when Aaron cleared last trump.

Now ruff a diamond and ruff your own good K in hand to be able to ruff 3rd so you can see how many diamonds Richard held. He will see Richard's original shape is 6223. And due AJ +A I'd play for Qx and play Richard for xxx/ Txx club as Gonzalo said. However if he finds out that Richard has only 2 clubs, (if Richard followed 3rd ) then I'd play Richard for Tx .
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#8 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2015-June-20, 04:53

Thanks for pointing out the show-up squeeze Andrei

View PostMrAce, on 2015-June-19, 12:44, said:

At our table I would play different than Aaron did, risking to go down more to get more info about their hand.

Richard was known to hold 6+2 at the time when Aaron cleared last trump.

Now ruff a diamond and ruff your own good K in hand to be able to ruff 3rd so you can see how many diamonds Richard held. He will see Richard's original shape is 6223. And due AJ +A I'd play for Qx and play Richard for xxx/ Txx club as Gonzalo said. However if he finds out that Richard has only 2 clubs, (if Richard followed 3rd ) then I'd play Richard for Tx .


Yes the crucial difference between the 2 auctions is that Richard overcalled 2 (assumed weak) whereas Csaba overcalled 1 (Assumed less limited). I think Timo is saying that Richard is known to hold a 3 card club suit and therefore in isolation is more likely to hold the Q. However this would give him 11HCP with 2 aces and even with Richard's pre-empting style, this is unlikely.
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#9 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-June-20, 04:58

View PostWackojack, on 2015-June-20, 04:53, said:

Thanks for pointing out the show-up squeeze Andrei



Yes the crucial difference between the 2 auctions is that Richard overcalled 2 (assumed weak) whereas Csaba overcalled 1 (Assumed less limited). I think Timo is saying that Richard is known to hold a 3 card club suit and therefore in isolation is more likely to hold the Q. However this would give him 11HCP with 2 aces and even with Richard's pre-empting style, this is unlikely.


No, I am not saying that at all. I said due to AJ and A I'd play for Qx club (Qx with his pd, not Richard)

I am saying that after ruffing diamonds, IF Richard is known to hold 3 card clubs, then I would play him for xxx or Txx (Cash AK). But after ruffing diamonds, IF Richard follows all of them then he is known to hold xx or Tx. Since I can not do anything when he holds xx, I would play him for Tx. Play small to the K and then play J from dummy.

At our table, squeeze was never an option. Defense started with A and spade ruff, A and 3rd spade played. We had to guess clubs. Aaron made a successful blind guess, where he could improve his chances by making a more informed play.
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#10 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2015-June-20, 05:34

View PostMrAce, on 2015-June-20, 04:58, said:

But after ruffing diamonds, IF Richard follows all of them then he is known to hold xx or Tx. Since I can not do anything when he holds xx, I would play him for Tx. Play small to the K and then play J from dummy.[/size]



Oh I see what you are getting at. However, making this discovery play with A985 opposite KJ76, you happen to be on lead from the KJ76. So presumably you would just bang down the King and then run the Jack. Running the Jack first would be equal, although there are some even with Q10x who might not cover.
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#11 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-June-20, 05:56

View PostWackojack, on 2015-June-20, 05:34, said:

Oh I see what you are getting at. However, making this discovery play with A985 opposite KJ76, you happen to be on lead from the KJ76. So presumably you would just bang down the King and then run the Jack. Running the Jack first would be equal, although there are some even with Q10x who might not cover.


Yes I will be in dummy, but it does not matter. As long as I know that Richard can not have Q I will just cash K as you said. What I will play next (J or small) depends on how many club I think N has. And I will know it by discovery play.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#12 User is offline   fourdad 

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Posted 2015-June-20, 06:05

I would pass with the West hand and set 2.
Problem solved.
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