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Intervention or not and which intervention

#1 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2015-June-15, 16:03

MPs, red vs. green, dealer bids 1H, you have

Q8x
(void)
AJxx
K8xxxx

Do you move, if so, what?

If you pass, it goes 2H, pass, pass. To you again.

If you bid 2C, it goes 2H, 2NT (nat, around opening values), pass.

If you X, partner bids 3NT on LHO's 2H.

For the record, partner had Kxx A9xxx KQx Jx and 7/8 tricks is the limit in NT while 4C can be made. Unless you blow a trick by leading a small club against some heart contract by W, you can expect to make more tricks than the opponents.
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#2 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2015-June-15, 16:26

pass the first time.

I guess 3c the next time.
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2015-June-15, 16:31

I have too much information now, to be objective. But I think I would pass directly over 1 and then balance with 3C if 2H comes back around to me.

My hand is not powerful enough to overcall 2C and then balance with delay unusual 2NT; and it seems on this hand I would probably be in trouble already by my next turn if I overcalled 2C.

Regarding a direct takeout double --- yuk. If I don't have the high-cards to do that, I should at least have 4 of the other major.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#4 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-June-15, 16:32

View Postapollo1201, on 2015-June-15, 16:03, said:

MPs, red vs. green, dealer bids 1H, you have
Q 8 x - A J x x K 8 x x x x
Do you move, if so, what?
If you pass, it goes 2H, pass, pass. To you again.
If you bid 2C, it goes 2H, 2NT (nat, around opening values), pass.
If you X, partner bids 3NT on LHO's 2H.
For the record, partner had K x x A 9 x x x K Q x J x
and 7/8 tricks is the limit in NT while 4C can be made. Unless you blow a trick by leading a small club against some heart contract by W, you can expect to make more tricks than the opponents.
IMO
  • Over (1) ??: Pass = 10. Double = 9. 2 = 8.
  • Over (1) 2 (2) 2N (_P) ??: Pass = 10, 3 = 7.
  • Over (1) _X (2) 3N (_P) ??. Finger the 6N card, then reluctantly Pass, in the hope of averting a double :)

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#5 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2015-June-15, 16:51

MP is a game of MANY razor thin decisions. The deck looks to be about evenly split and if the opps are in a 8 card fit they are at the right level but most likely in trouble with their suit splitting 50. We do not have a decent opening lead so that is a strike against us but a low spade hardly looks gross. AT MP it seems pass originally and x has the best chance overall of being a MP winner. While at IMPS pass and pass since the downside of the opps making 2hx is horrific while at MP it is only 1 board.

Backing into this auction with 3c is just looking for trouble at these colors. We have no reason to suspect p has ANY clubs much less a fit and we could be turning a perfectly normal board into an unmitgated slaughter. Not even sure what the upside of 3c is when our hand surely thinks we are better off with the opps playing 2h.
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#6 User is offline   case_no_6 

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Posted 2015-June-16, 15:45

Playing standard defensive bidding methods, I would pass over 1H. (If 1NT is available as a light takeout, however, I would do that.)

Over 2H on my left and back to me, I am inclined to balance. Dbl, 2NT, and 3C are all reasonable.

I suspect that partner will have 4 or 5 hearts, so I think it is likely that we likely will face a forcing defense. That to me suggests that it is best to balance into my 6 card suit - that is likely to be our best chance of a plus score on offense.

3C also best positions us for our best chance for defending 3H, a contract where we seem likely to earn a plus score.

Regardless of whether this is IMPs or MPs, a plus score is unlikely to be a bad result, so going plus is my goal on this deal.
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#7 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2015-June-17, 06:50

I think I don't come in on the first round. Why not:
2C: It's not so much that I might get doubled and go for a number. This could happen but usually when you have a six card suit it doesn't. My reason for not bidding 2C is that, when vul, I like partner to expect to be able to run my suit if he has something like Qx. Maybe even, as here with Jx.
X: I can see it as possible at mps, but it is aggressive.

I agree with gszes that if I pass and 2H comes back to me I will be a bit uneasy about 3C. Partner, far more often than not, has five hearts. Doubling might work well, as he suggests. Partner looks at his bad shape, recalls my first round pass, and tries 2NT. A natural passable call. Now I know, or at least I assume, he has some of everything. I pull to 3C. I did pass first round, he passes now.


I dunno, it is always easy to fantasize about what I might have done, but this doesn't sound crazy to me.
Ken
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#8 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2015-June-17, 11:24

I would bid 2 on the first round, but double is acceptable too. I would never pass.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#9 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2015-June-17, 14:18

View Postjdonn, on 2015-June-17, 11:24, said:

I would bid 2 on the first round, but double is acceptable too. I would never pass.


Let's go with that for a bit. How do you envision the subsequent auction going, playing with a partner of your choice?

It seems that he has too much to pass. He is not likely to love 2NT but what else? Raising 2C to 3C on Jx seems odd, so does passing.

I am not at all quarreling with 2C. I mean to be asking: If we do it, can we land on our feet in a club contract? It would seem that the way to land in a club contract is to bid clubs, but is it?

We are told that over 2C, lho bids 2H. A responsive double is out (right?) so he does what?

I guess 3C is right. Maybe I can see it. It's not much of a NT hand.
Ken
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#10 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2015-June-17, 22:16

View Postjdonn, on 2015-June-17, 11:24, said:

I would bid 2 on the first round, but double is acceptable too. I would never pass.



I think when a superior player, a truly wonderful player such as jdonn says he would never pass at mp in this given OP I need to rethink..

I thought pass was easy the first round, 3c debate at mp at this vul.


I go out on a limb and suggest to bid early is better to bid latter and this wAS an exception?

Clearly Jdonn suggests no.
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#11 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2015-June-18, 05:37

Someone could write a very interesting article about choosing between NT and a minor. This hand would be a fine illustration. Let's look at both hands, nicely provided by the OP.. It is a reasonable but not certain assumption that the Ace of clubs is on your right and let's guess it is with one or two other clubs. Playing in clubs there is likely to be 1+1+4+4=10 tricks. Those tricks are there in NT as well except for the fact that the opponents are going to take three hearts (the heart 9 may or may not prevent them from taking four) and two side aces first. As OP also notes/implies, playing in hearts they can take their side aces and they can manage four hear tricks, but that may be it. So 2HX would be good, but hard to reach. Surely (1H)-2C-(2H)-X is for take-out to diamonds and spades.

If we assume that 2HX cannot be reached, our choices are between NT and clubs. There is a natural tendency to prefer NT, but playing in clubs is right on this hand. We all confront these choices, and I at least get them wrong more often than I would like.
Ken
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