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Partner doubles preempt and you have a freak

#1 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2015-June-13, 06:54


Playing Lebensohl and LM.

Yes, opps bidding is weird. Anyway, is there a controled way to bid this? Playing lebensohl, presumably 4♦ by S would be forcing? What is the difference between a fast and a slow 4♦?

To complicate the matter, it is matchpoints so it is debatable what the optimal contract is. Probably 6♦ is best at IMPs.
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#2 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2015-June-13, 09:27

 helene_t, on 2015-June-13, 06:54, said:

Playing lebensohl, presumably 4♦ by S would be forcing?

Isn't 3♦ forcing? I would assume 4♦ is insisting on diamonds and asking for slam. 3♦ keeps open the option of playing in hearts.
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#3 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-June-13, 10:22

 fromageGB, on 2015-June-13, 09:27, said:

Isn't 3♦ forcing?


Some play it NF but invitational, including myself.
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#4 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2015-June-13, 10:40

Yes, normally 4♦ is taken as forcing as far as I know.

 MrAce, on 2015-June-13, 10:22, said:

Some play it NF but invitational, including myself.

Almost everyone plays it that way. You're misusing Lebensohl if you play 2NT as 0-11 and 3x as 12+.
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#5 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2015-June-13, 11:29

I think it's normal to play 3♦ NF.

I'm not sure if there's a standard set of meanings for slow and fast 4♦. Some people play a direct 4♦ as a strong invitation and a slow 4♦ as forcing; some play it the other way around; and some play one of them as forcing and the other as 4-5 with the other major. Most don't know what they play.

In your auction I think North's final action was ill-judged. What did he think he had extra?

If South is going to jump to slam, he might have chosen hearts rather than diamonds. That will only be bad if it's a 5-3 fit and trumps are 4-1.

If South wants to get to hearts only when it's a 9-card fit, he could use whatever method you use to ask for a 4-card heart suit, and then bid 6♦ if no heart fit emerges. Or he could try 5NT-6♣-6♦.

To investigate a grand slam, presumably you could start by asking for a 4-card heart suit and then bid 4♦, which is obviously forcing. Then 4♠5♣;5♦-6♦ or 4♠5♣;5♦-6♥ seems a reasonable route.

... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#6 User is offline   WesleyC 

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Posted 2015-June-14, 00:26

Re: Gnasher's point: A really simple extension of lebensohl on G/F hands is:

2NT shows 4oM.
Cuebid asks for a stopper.

In combination these 2 agreements give you the ability to show a lot of different G/F hands.

Using that method at IMPs, the auction might continue:

2NT* - 3C*
4D* - 5D
5H - 5S
6C - 6D
AP

At MPs its a tougher choice - because usually 6H will score better than 6D. So It might be better to give up some slam precision in order to make sure we play in hearts.
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#7 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2015-June-15, 21:43

Not to hijack the thread, but looking at spade shortness in your own hand, aren't you afraid partner's double might be based on a huge hand with clubs, making their red-suit support not as good as you might expect?
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#8 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2015-June-15, 22:53

 gwnn, on 2015-June-13, 10:40, said:

Yes, normally 4♦ is taken as forcing as far as I know.

Almost everyone plays it that way. You're misusing Lebensohl if you play 2NT as 0-11 and 3x as 12+.

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#9 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2015-June-20, 14:01

While a direct 4♦ shows a good hand, this one is too good. 2NT Lebensohl then 4♦ should show slam interest.

3♠ Then ♦ might be a clearer message.
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