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Scoring - IMP pairs
NV vs VUL you deal and open
You have:
♠:AKJ8
♥:AKQ
♦:J975
♣:K8
You open 2NT:
Partner bids 3♥ - standard transfer.
What do you do now?(Your pair does not have any relevant agreements over this, anything besides 3♠, should be a super accept by common sense)
Relevant information: 4♥ would be a transfer to spades as well. 3♥-3♠, then 4♠ invites slam by pd.
Most of the field play a strong club, and not neceserally have 2NT for a natural opener.
What to bid over pd transfer?
#1
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Posted 2015-May-26, 06:22
#2
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Posted 2015-May-26, 06:44
What's the range of my 2N, am I min or max ?
#3
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Posted 2015-May-26, 07:16
"No agreements" what ever I bid is going to be pure guess if partner thinks samy way. So I will avoid any confusion and just bid 4♠. But actually that hand would like to hear if partner has a mild slam interest and short ♦. That why it would be nice to have 3NT as super accept asking for SGL if slam is possible. Other wise partner would bid retransfer to play 4♠ (or ask aces without show shortness). But more often 2NT opening includes mix of values that doesn't work so perfectly against any shortness.
#4
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Posted 2015-May-26, 07:58
3s
no super accept over 2nt openings
If pard now bids 4s as a slam try I will cue 5c
partner must have minor suit cards to even make a mild slam try.
no super accept over 2nt openings
If pard now bids 4s as a slam try I will cue 5c
partner must have minor suit cards to even make a mild slam try.
#5
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Posted 2015-May-26, 08:04
4♠ seems clear. Opposite 5 spades, a doubleton diamond and a zero count, I have play. If partner has a good hand, I want him to know that I have a slam suitable hand. He knows I have a good hand, but he is also looking at nothing in hearts and a trump suit that is at best Q high. I want to encourage him to bid on if he has something.
#6
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Posted 2015-May-26, 09:59
To those suggesting 3NT asking for shortage, it is not free of risk but I tend to play 2N-3H-3N to show a 2-5-3-3 shape. Yes, breaking the rule that you need a fit to super-accept.
The risk of course is that if partner was about to drop the transfer accepted at the 3 level, you are now a level higher.
The risk of NOT doing it is that you miss the potential for finding the Heart fit on the rather more frequent occasions that partner was going to bid again.
Over a transfer to Hearts we play 2N-3D-3S to show a 5-2-3-3 shape. This carries slightly lower risk because 3S has a respectable chance of being a playable spot opposite a weak takeout into Hearts.
Whatever, some (system) bid higher than 3S is indicated here.Presumably not 4H, as that would deny partner a re-transfer. Other than that I am easy.
The risk of course is that if partner was about to drop the transfer accepted at the 3 level, you are now a level higher.
The risk of NOT doing it is that you miss the potential for finding the Heart fit on the rather more frequent occasions that partner was going to bid again.
Over a transfer to Hearts we play 2N-3D-3S to show a 5-2-3-3 shape. This carries slightly lower risk because 3S has a respectable chance of being a playable spot opposite a weak takeout into Hearts.
Whatever, some (system) bid higher than 3S is indicated here.Presumably not 4H, as that would deny partner a re-transfer. Other than that I am easy.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
str-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#7
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Posted 2015-May-26, 11:03
Without any special agreements 4♠ is your only clear super-accept. Besides anything else may wrong side contract.
At imps I'll risk p having 0 cause if they have anything will make 4♠ and otherwise could be playing in 3.
At imps I'll risk p having 0 cause if they have anything will make 4♠ and otherwise could be playing in 3.
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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Posted 2015-May-26, 14:09
Edit 2NT is 20-22, somehow i figured i posted that, my mistake
#9
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Posted 2015-May-26, 22:08
I bid 3♠. We have the expected number of controls (7) and HCP (21) . While we have 4-card support (and 3 honors at that), we could easily have matching losers in Diamonds and Clubs unless partner has something. And if partner has anything and makes a move toward slam, I will happily oblige.
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#10
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Posted 2015-May-26, 23:24
phoenix214, on 2015-May-26, 06:22, said:
Scoring - IMP pairs
NV vs VUL you deal and open
You have:
♠:AKJ8
♥:AKQ
♦:J975
♣:K8
You open 2NT:
Partner bids 3♥ - standard transfer.
What do you do now?(Your pair does not have any relevant agreements over this, anything besides 3♠, should be a super accept by common sense)
Relevant information: 4♥ would be a transfer to spades as well. 3♥-3♠, then 4♠ invites slam by pd.
Most of the field play a strong club, and not neceserally have 2NT for a natural opener.
NV vs VUL you deal and open
You have:
♠:AKJ8
♥:AKQ
♦:J975
♣:K8
You open 2NT:
Partner bids 3♥ - standard transfer.
What do you do now?(Your pair does not have any relevant agreements over this, anything besides 3♠, should be a super accept by common sense)
Relevant information: 4♥ would be a transfer to spades as well. 3♥-3♠, then 4♠ invites slam by pd.
Most of the field play a strong club, and not neceserally have 2NT for a natural opener.
For the present,you should just bid 3 ♠]as requested. Partner could have a yarborough with 5+ rag spades and is asking for a takeout. Make the minimum bid and leave the decision to go further to partner. Bid your own hand,not your partners
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
#11
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Posted 2015-May-26, 23:29
I don't get all of this pard is bidding with 5s and zero points...
come on guys....pard is allowed to pass 2nt
come on guys....pard is allowed to pass 2nt
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Posted 2015-May-26, 23:40
mike777, on 2015-May-26, 23:29, said:
I don't get all of this pard is bidding with 5s and zero points...
come on guys....pard is allowed to pass 2nt
come on guys....pard is allowed to pass 2nt
Of course he is....but he chose instead to bid 3♥asking for a transfer to♠
You shouldn't be second guessing partner..just do what you've been asked,go with the flow,
and leave the next bid(if any)to 'pard'
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
#13
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Posted 2015-May-26, 23:46
It is unusual for 2N opener to have a 3 point range, there being no room to invite, although some of the older styles did advocate that.
But that lack of bidding space amplifies the need to use what little space is available to maximum effect, and I know of several good partnerships who will superaccept with only 3 trumps if the hand is otherwise suitable.
Not for no reason is the 2N opener dubbed the slam-killer.
The difference in playing strength between this hand and one with the black suits reversed is so great that both your game and slam bidding can only improve by distinguishing between the two as early as possible.
FYP
No, let's instead be unhelpful and ask partner to do the second guessing.
Agreed. You have been asked to superaccept with a particularly good hand in context, so do what you have been asked.
If by going with the flow you judge it right to bid with the room, then that is not really possible as the OP states that most of the room is opening a strong 1C rather than 2N. I suppose it could go 1C-1D-2N-3H at the other tables, leaving you in the same position. But in a more general event this strategy would dictate super-accepting, being the majority action. But if you need a swing, perhaps just accept.
Pard is always left with the next bid (unless you pass 3H
)
One call that he might make is pass. And 3S may indeed be high enough if partner has a flat Yarborough. Just as 2S might be enough after a 2-level transfer, and yet super-accepting is mainstream. Of course partner can also pass 3S when you are making 4 in comfort.
But that lack of bidding space amplifies the need to use what little space is available to maximum effect, and I know of several good partnerships who will superaccept with only 3 trumps if the hand is otherwise suitable.
Not for no reason is the 2N opener dubbed the slam-killer.
The difference in playing strength between this hand and one with the black suits reversed is so great that both your game and slam bidding can only improve by distinguishing between the two as early as possible.
PhilG007, on 2015-May-26, 23:40, said:
he chose instead to bid 3♥asking for a transfer to♠ unless you have too good a hand in context
PhilG007, on 2015-May-26, 23:40, said:
You shouldn't be second guessing partner..
PhilG007, on 2015-May-26, 23:40, said:
just do what you've been asked,
PhilG007, on 2015-May-26, 23:40, said:
go with the flow,
If by going with the flow you judge it right to bid with the room, then that is not really possible as the OP states that most of the room is opening a strong 1C rather than 2N. I suppose it could go 1C-1D-2N-3H at the other tables, leaving you in the same position. But in a more general event this strategy would dictate super-accepting, being the majority action. But if you need a swing, perhaps just accept.
PhilG007, on 2015-May-26, 23:40, said:
and leave the next bid(if any)to 'pard'
Pard is always left with the next bid (unless you pass 3H
)One call that he might make is pass. And 3S may indeed be high enough if partner has a flat Yarborough. Just as 2S might be enough after a 2-level transfer, and yet super-accepting is mainstream. Of course partner can also pass 3S when you are making 4 in comfort.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
str-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#14
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Posted 2015-May-27, 00:35
I bid 3N, which I don't take as asking for shortage, but as a super-accept showing 4♠ while suggesting 3N as the final contract. (Maybe I should say it is asking for shortage but can be passed with none.)
If partner has no shortage, 3N could very well play better than 4♠; for example ♠Qxxxx ♥xx ♦Txx ♣xxx is much better at 3N, while ♠Qxxxx ♥xxx ♦Tx ♣xxx is basically equal.
At MPs or a short IMP team game I would certainly consider 3♠. I expect partner to bid on with any ace or king (the latter only because he or she has a 5 card suit).
If partner has no shortage, 3N could very well play better than 4♠; for example ♠Qxxxx ♥xx ♦Txx ♣xxx is much better at 3N, while ♠Qxxxx ♥xxx ♦Tx ♣xxx is basically equal.
At MPs or a short IMP team game I would certainly consider 3♠. I expect partner to bid on with any ace or king (the latter only because he or she has a 5 card suit).
#15
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Posted 2015-May-27, 00:36
guys many do not play super accept over 2nt
pls do not assume such unless you know
I took the chance that we do not and it will not kill us...It may help us
I see the vast of you assume other and worry about missing game
pls do not assume such unless you know
I took the chance that we do not and it will not kill us...It may help us
I see the vast of you assume other and worry about missing game
#16
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Posted 2015-May-27, 01:33
14 votes (to date) is of course not a representative sample. But the proportion of 10:4 in favour of moving is roughly in line with my experience of popularity of super-accepting in principle in real life. At least among the better pairs. And that leaves plenty of room for consistency with your statement that "many do not super accept over 2nt". It is also my observation that the dogmatic acceptance of transfers is skewed toward the less experienced pairs (and yes, I accept that some good pairs do it also).
To be frank if the arguments for accepting in this case were that the hand falls just short of qualification (say you would prefer the Club King to be Diamond King) then I would have more sympathy. But a blanket refusal ever to super-accept over 2N is in my experience contrary to mainstream practice, even if many do it.
To be frank if the arguments for accepting in this case were that the hand falls just short of qualification (say you would prefer the Club King to be Diamond King) then I would have more sympathy. But a blanket refusal ever to super-accept over 2N is in my experience contrary to mainstream practice, even if many do it.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
str-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#17
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Posted 2015-May-27, 07:59
3s
Even with 4 trumps I do not consider this hand a super accept. The SJ and DJ are highly overrated and even the possibility of a club ruff is minimized opposite a known 5 card spade suit. Yes I have 4 trumps and 21 HCP but GAME is not such a hot prospect opposite a vast majority of hands p was going to pass with over the transfer. The idea of a super accept is when one's hand has exceeded the original range or is of exceptional value after hearing the transfer. IMHO this hand meets neither of these criteria. FWIW I also like to use 3n as asking for shortness but only with hands I will super accept with. 4C and 4D are super accepts with a side 5 card minor that do not meet the use of 3n.
Even with 4 trumps I do not consider this hand a super accept. The SJ and DJ are highly overrated and even the possibility of a club ruff is minimized opposite a known 5 card spade suit. Yes I have 4 trumps and 21 HCP but GAME is not such a hot prospect opposite a vast majority of hands p was going to pass with over the transfer. The idea of a super accept is when one's hand has exceeded the original range or is of exceptional value after hearing the transfer. IMHO this hand meets neither of these criteria. FWIW I also like to use 3n as asking for shortness but only with hands I will super accept with. 4C and 4D are super accepts with a side 5 card minor that do not meet the use of 3n.
#18
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Posted 2015-May-27, 08:36
gszes, on 2015-May-27, 07:59, said:
3s
Even with 4 trumps I do not consider this hand a super accept. The SJ and DJ are highly overrated and even the possibility of a club ruff is minimized opposite a known 5 card spade suit. Yes I have 4 trumps and 21 HCP but GAME is not such a hot prospect opposite a vast majority of hands p was going to pass with over the transfer. The idea of a super accept is when one's hand has exceeded the original range or is of exceptional value after hearing the transfer. IMHO this hand meets neither of these criteria. FWIW I also like to use 3n as asking for shortness but only with hands I will super accept with. 4C and 4D are super accepts with a side 5 card minor that do not meet the use of 3n.
Even with 4 trumps I do not consider this hand a super accept. The SJ and DJ are highly overrated and even the possibility of a club ruff is minimized opposite a known 5 card spade suit. Yes I have 4 trumps and 21 HCP but GAME is not such a hot prospect opposite a vast majority of hands p was going to pass with over the transfer. The idea of a super accept is when one's hand has exceeded the original range or is of exceptional value after hearing the transfer. IMHO this hand meets neither of these criteria. FWIW I also like to use 3n as asking for shortness but only with hands I will super accept with. 4C and 4D are super accepts with a side 5 card minor that do not meet the use of 3n.
The issue is partly what you expect partner to bid on with. Qxxxx, xxx, xx, Qxx ? Most of the time, this will not make game opposite a 2N opener (50%+ of 20-22s are 20s IIRC), the knowledge that you will break the transfer makes it easy to transfer then pass opposite a non break, can be wrong but I think your odds of being in the right place significantly improve if you break on the original hand.
#19
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Posted 2015-May-27, 09:45
As others have said, this hand is deceptively poor.
Our long suit is J9xx.
AKQ tight is a devaluation.
The spade J is questionable, and even the K really isn't pulling its full weight in a five, much less a six card fit.
Aside from this, the four trump are nice, and we do have a ruffing value.
I would just bid 3♠, but cooperate if partner starts making noise.
Our long suit is J9xx.
AKQ tight is a devaluation.
The spade J is questionable, and even the K really isn't pulling its full weight in a five, much less a six card fit.
Aside from this, the four trump are nice, and we do have a ruffing value.
I would just bid 3♠, but cooperate if partner starts making noise.
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#20
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Posted 2015-May-27, 17:37
Cyberyeti, on 2015-May-27, 08:36, said:
The issue is partly what you expect partner to bid on with. Qxxxx, xxx, xx, Qxx ? Most of the time, this will not make game opposite a 2N opener (50%+ of 20-22s are 20s IIRC), the knowledge that you will break the transfer makes it easy to transfer then pass opposite a non break, can be wrong but I think your odds of being in the right place significantly improve if you break on the original hand.
It seems too unilateral for one to decide to let 3s ride when 3n could more than easily be right. This hand which is right near the top of the weak hands p might hold and decide to pass 3s with is one that might fall through the cracks. I never claimed 3s was a cure all just that it rated to be right quite a lot opposite a hand p intended to pass 3s with. A stronger case can be made for raising to 4s vul at imps.