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No LA? UI from question

Poll: No LA? (31 member(s) have cast votes)

As West what do you lead to South's 3N

  1. Club (2 votes [6.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.45%

  2. Diamond (18 votes [58.06%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 58.06%

  3. Heart (11 votes [35.48%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 35.48%

  4. Spade (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Other (Hippogriff?) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#21 User is offline   richlp 

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Posted 2015-July-23, 18:41

View Postbarmar, on 2015-July-13, 10:33, said:

That method of dealing with UI is frequently recommended by experts. Try to ignore the UI (as L73 requires), and if the TD decides that you violated L16B accept the adjustment with grace.

The problem is that it's extremely difficult for the player themselves to determine what is or isn't an LA. It's hard enough for the TD to figure out what LAs there are, and what is demonstrably shown, and he can conduct a poll. The player can't poll, and they'll naturally give the most weight to the action they were "always" going to do -- from their perspective, it seems like the only LA.


I'm glad somebody else feels this way. My college roommate is now an ACBL National Director and we've discussed this. We've talked about a large number of ACBL appeals cases and in a significant majority of them my analysis of what is a logical alternative, and what is suggested by the UI, has been so far from what the appeals committee decided and what the commentators discussed as to make my attempts to work it out almost meaningless. I'm willing to take a bad score in UI cases if there are LAs and my choice is suggested. I'll take the committee's judgement with good grace. But I don't want to take a bad score because I misjudged what the LAs actually are.

Yes, I'm aware that this contravenes the letter of the law - but I think it's a practical solution to a difficult situation.
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#22 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2015-July-23, 22:16

The problem with UI is that there is one very difficult thing a player should do:

He should stop to try and win.

Winning is not priority anymore. Doing the right thing is. As long as you think in terms of winning, it is impossible to be objective about LA's and what the UI suggests.

If you do not want to win the board anymore you might be able to be objective. Then you can reason what the UI suggested and you can tell what the LAs are. You will also be able to explain calmly why you chose the action you took. Your explanation will be based on the laws rather than on "what you always would have done".

Of course, it is still possible to misjudge (or to run into an AC that disagrees with you), but your best chance of "winning in the AC" is to stop wanting to win in the first place.

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
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#23 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2015-July-24, 10:17

"Try to ignore" is not what L73 requests; "must carefully avoid [using]" is the quote. With normal biases, "carefully avoid using" will almost always *be* succeeding "to ignore"; "try[ing] to ignore" will lead to "using unless it's at least moderately obvious that there's a legitimate (as opposed to the legal definition of Logical) alternative".

I agree with the rest of the sentence, however. Do your best to carefully avoid using UI at the table, and if the opponents and the TD believe otherwise, accept the judgement gracefully. If the opponents make it obvious that you failed (and this has happened to me, I'm sure it's happened to everybody), call the TD yourself, and accept the ruling gracefully.

If you try to avoid using UI and fail, you've been ethical and proper and made a poor judgement in an uncommon situation. If you try to avoid being ruled against for using UI and fail, less so.
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#24 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2015-July-24, 11:13

A heart lead isn't really crazy. Don't know (nor care to know) Acol, but it seems South could be 5=0=3=5 here (5=0=4=4?)?

Since English directors are so much better than their American counterparts, why wasn't this polled?

The part about AI to declarer is pretty hilarious.
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#25 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2015-July-24, 11:21

There is a good reason to avoid the term "using". When you decide your preferred call has a LA, then you must use the UI (your assessment of the UI) to determine whether that UI could suggest the action you want to take. You are using the UI to choose your ethically appropriate call, not using it to gain a better result.
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#26 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2015-July-24, 11:28

View PostPhil, on 2015-July-24, 11:13, said:

Since English directors are so much better than their American counterparts, why wasn't this polled?

I think you will find this didn't happen in England :)
Gordon Rainsford
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#27 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2015-July-24, 11:44

View Postgordontd, on 2015-July-24, 11:28, said:

I think you will find this didn't happen in England :)


Look, just because you guys fly different flags it doesn't mean you aren't in the same damn place. Same island, same queen, similar accents :P

(Taking off my ugly American hat now)
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