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I was trying to work out the best way to investigate slam and saw the description for 4C say 13+ HCP with no upper limit mentioned, so I figured It must be forcing in the gib system. I was disappointed to see partner pass with 6C being a very good contract.
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what's the upper limit here?
#1
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Posted 2015-May-10, 12:00
I was trying to work out the best way to investigate slam and saw the description for 4C say 13+ HCP with no upper limit mentioned, so I figured It must be forcing in the gib system. I was disappointed to see partner pass with 6C being a very good contract.
Wayne Somerville
#2
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Posted 2015-May-10, 14:30
Sometimes you just have to play bridge. 4C sounds invitational or competitive, not forcing. I'm not at all surprised GIB took it so. Especially since you can bid game (5C) or try for slam (4S) in other ways.
#3
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Posted 2015-May-10, 15:18
iandayre, on 2015-May-10, 14:30, said:
Sometimes you just have to play bridge. 4C sounds invitational or competitive, not forcing. I'm not at all surprised GIB took it so. Especially since you can bid game (5C) or try for slam (4S) in other ways.
I had hovered over 4S, but it mentioned something about being forcing to 5H, so that was out.
Wayne Somerville
#4
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Posted 2015-May-10, 15:19
I'd be interested to know how the panel thinks that South's X of 1S should be defined. Everything else hinges on that, in my opinion.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
str-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#5
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Posted 2015-May-10, 15:29
imo, it should be clubs with some heart tolerance. I might have bid 2C myself, but the suit seemed a bit shoddy.
Wayne Somerville
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Posted 2015-May-10, 16:23
It is a recurring issue that bids that are described as unlimited are not forcing. This has been reported many times, but the developers don't seem to think it's worth making a universal review to fix this.
#7
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Posted 2015-May-10, 18:00
There is a world of a difference between Clubs with Heart tolerance (preferred) and Spades with Heart short (GIB). That said, for as long as we have to live with X showing Spades with Heart shortage I suppose we have to consider the continuations in that context.
On this hand I expect that GIB North calculated that if South is minimum in context then 4C is plenty (not convinced about that but happy to accept it), and while South might have more the likelihood did not justify the risk.
On this hand I expect that GIB North calculated that if South is minimum in context then 4C is plenty (not convinced about that but happy to accept it), and while South might have more the likelihood did not justify the risk.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
str-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#8
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Posted 2015-May-11, 16:43
While the description of double is 13+ HCP (13? 
) with biddable spades ( ), it's not really unlimited. A little Walter the Walrus analysis shows that Opener has 11-12+, responder has 5-6+, overcaller has exactly 9. Advancer has a likely 15 maximum so unlimited really isn't that unlimited, and overcaller has 8+. How can 4♣ be forcing to game? Answer - It can't so you have to bid something other than 4♣ if you want to force.
) with biddable spades ( ), it's not really unlimited. A little Walter the Walrus analysis shows that Opener has 11-12+, responder has 5-6+, overcaller has exactly 9. Advancer has a likely 15 maximum so unlimited really isn't that unlimited, and overcaller has 8+. How can 4♣ be forcing to game? Answer - It can't so you have to bid something other than 4♣ if you want to force.
#9
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Posted 2015-May-11, 18:42
Agree with Manudude03 and BBradley62 that Gib should treat "unlimited" bids as "forcing". In general, it should define calls more accurately, even when that would entail specifying different ranges.
#10
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Posted 2015-May-12, 11:01
I agree with the consensus that unlimited bids should be forcing. The problem here is the description of the bid being unlimited, not the fact that it is non-forcing. A further problem is the cuebid as showing a H rather than a C fit - that is clearly nonsense in light of the original double.
I also play the double as showing the unbid suit with typically a doubleton in overcaller's suit. I will make an exception here to the general rule that GIB doesn't need more conventions, and suggest that advancer's double in situations such as this be so defined. This used to be called "Snapdragon".
I also play the double as showing the unbid suit with typically a doubleton in overcaller's suit. I will make an exception here to the general rule that GIB doesn't need more conventions, and suggest that advancer's double in situations such as this be so defined. This used to be called "Snapdragon".
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