[Wackojack]

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Assume that opener guarantees at least 3 cards in clubs.
How would you ensure that partner does not take further club bids by you to be showing shortage and diamond support or general forcing and not necessarily showing clubs?
What is normal?

[helene_t]

I think 3♣ should be natural here, maybe even 2♣ should but that may be adjective bridge.

Another possibility is to pass first and bid spades afterwards, on the theory that such a sequence shows spades and longer clubs.

[eagles123]

Is 3n totally absurd I mean we can already count seven tricks and if we get a heart lead it's going round to partners holding anyway

[Wackojack]

Yes I agree that a 3N bash is not unreasonble here. I am though looking more for a principle of what club bids mean.
1.
1♣-(1♠)-p-(1NT)
p-(2♣)-p-(2♦)
p-(3♣)
Is this saying please choose between clubs and no trumps?

2.
1♣-(1♠)-p-(1NT)
p-(3♣)-p-(3♦)
p-(3♥)
Was 3♣passable?
Is this saying please bid 3N if you have a heart stop?

3.
1♣-(1♠)-p-(1NT)
p-(3♣)-p-(3♦)
p-(4♣)
If 3♣ was not passable then is 4♣ a slam try?
If 3♣ was passable then is 4♣ also passable?

[mgoetze]

Wackojack, on 2015-May-06, 08:58, said:

Assume that opener guarantees at least 3 cards in clubs.
How would you ensure that partner does not take further club bids by you to be showing shortage and diamond support or general forcing and not necessarily showing clubs?
What is normal?

Well, I ensure that by bidding my longest suit first - I play (1♣)-2♣ as natural and (1♣)-2♦ as Michaels. But that's not normal.

[kuhchung]

i've always played the 2C rebid here as natural but i don't think that's common

[gwnn]

Partner does not promise diamonds with 1NT. He could have 2533, 2443, ... (Let alone long clubs which is kinda unlikely)

I like 2C as strong and 3C as natural.

[The It]

I'm sure the ask "how many does 1♣ promise?", then bid clubs approach would work here.

I think 2♣ should be natural.

[Phil]

We have had the discussion about 2!c being natural and I was a big proponent. Then I started picking up a lot of good, hard to describe hands.

3!C should still be natural but I doubt that's clear.

I'll just bid what I think I can make- 5C.

[zillahandp]

Dont open three card suits

[eagles123]

zillahandp, on 2015-May-07, 10:50, said:

Dont open three card suits

Completely agree, it should be against the law to play anything other than acol

[case_no_6]

Since when is 2C anything but clubs? It can't be a cue bid in support of partner's suit when partner has not bid any suit. In fact, partner has suggested some club strength and perhaps some length, so any club bid should be natural.

[ggwhiz]

case_no_6, on 2015-May-07, 12:35, said:

Since when is 2C anything but clubs?

Partners 1nt bid shows at least an 8-(bad) 11 count in my partnership. 2♣ is just a game force and we would usually plutz into spades or notrump.

2♣ followed by 3♣ is natural and forcing and 3♣ should probably be natural to play but we don't have that agreement so I'm blasting 3nt on this one.

[razorsharp]

I was preparing a psychotic rant that shames all idiots who believe 2C is anything but non-encouraging correction of 1NT. That's because you shouldn't treat the ambuiguous 1C as a real suit in many common situations, like this! (Also like the nebulous 1D Precision opener)
Our "tongue-in-cheek" rule is - "If we ever Q-bid Clubs over them, we either GOT clubs - or we DON'T GOT EM (You work it out, pard!)"
I guess that leaves 3C jump here as natural inv./force? But wait - I now admit we surely DO need a force - so I repent my hate-sin! And I offer in expiation the 3!C jump-Q here as the artificial force!
That's OK - we still have 2 good highways to heaven - choose 3NT or 5C - God bless us, every one!

Razorsharp

[PhilG007]

Wackojack, on 2015-May-06, 08:58, said:

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Assume that opener guarantees at least 3 cards in clubs.
How would you ensure that partner does not take further club bids by you to be showing shortage and diamond support or general forcing and not necessarily showing clubs?
What is normal?

Partner has bid NTs over the enemy 1♣ thus indicating a stopper in the suit. With your ♣ holding the sensible bid is 2NT also showing !C stoppers and inviting game.

[PhilG007]

eagles123, on 2015-May-07, 11:42, said:

Completely agree, it should be against the law to play anything other than acol

Totally disagree Acol is not the be all and end all bidding system... I played Acol for many
years and,like all systems,it doesn't cover all the bases.

[Wackojack]

Since this is going off topic I will try and answer my own questions.
Any club bid shows clubs after partner has bid a natural 1NT.
2♣ is a general force and followed by 3♣is a natural game force.
3♣is a natural invite.

With the actual hand best is then:
1♣-(1♠)-p-(1NT)
p-(2♣)-p-(2♦)
p-(3♣)-p-?
Now partner chooses between 3NT and 4♣ slam try in clubs.

OTOH a direct 3N giving away no information is reasonable.
And a direct 2NT invite is the worst of all worlds.

[PhilG007]

Wackojack, on 2015-May-08, 10:21, said:

Since this is going off topic I will try and answer my own questions.
Any club bid shows clubs after partner has bid a natural 1NT.
2♣ is a general force and followed by 3♣is a natural game force.
3♣is a natural invite.

With the actual hand best is then:
1♣-(1♠)-p-(1NT)
p-(2♣)-p-(2♦)
p-(3♣)-p-?
Now partner chooses between 3NT and 4♣ slam try in clubs.

OTOH a direct 3N giving away no information is reasonable.
And a direct 2NT invite is the worst of all worlds.

We will agree to disagree on that. After all,the game is bigger than both of us (!)

[Cthulhu D]

zillahandp, on 2015-May-07, 10:50, said:

Dont open three card suits

You don't get to pick oppo's system... so even if you think it is bad they are doing it.